house property 80c

>>> >>> i'm >>> i'm glad you did not get onthe train this morning. i ran into stu the other day andhe told me he would see me thursday in albany.i saved him. so i will be bringing thesession of public commission service to order.secretary burgess any changes you're aware of to the finalagenda? >> item 375, 14 ze 51, apetition of the solar systems on

behalf of multiple stakeholdersin relation to net metering. it be moved to the nonconsentagenda. >> thank you.so on this last session of th so on this last session ofthe -- of 2016, we're going to be making a change to how wenormally organize our agenda. and i just want everyone to beaware so there's no confusion. as always, we're -- we have aregular agenda and the raeg agenda consists of matters thatare either major decision matters for the commission oremajor policy matters that i

believe need to warrant a staffpresentation. and further discussion.and so they will stay on the regular agenda.we also have the consent agenda and the consent agenda consistsof matters that all of the commissions have --commissioners have agreed to and have indicated they have nofurther comment or questions and do not involve major policychanges or anything that would warrant further discussion.so just taking care of as a group as a vote group.then the nonconsent agenda have

matters that are on the consentagenda that a commission or commissioners believe haveindicated they're not in total agreement with or haveadditional questions and so while there would be no staffpresentations on these, we'll take additional questions.so the way we're going to do this is we're going to startwith the nonconsent agenda and these -- all of the items on thenonconsent agenda were items that commissioner burmanindicated that she had additional questions or wouldnot be agreeing to.

so before we proceed on those,we need to start off with asking commissioner sar andcommissioner akopore, any items on the consent agenda you wouldlike to get moved to the nonconsent agenda?either one of you. >> i have read through thevarious items and was briefed on all of these items, i read themthrough again in case i thought i might have missed somethingand i would move to -- as far as i'm concerned back to theconsent agenda. >> i have been over each of theitems on both the consent and

the nonconsent agenda severaltimes. first when they were initiallyproposed for the agenda and then with each successive draft ofthe orders. i have been briefed on them bystaff, all my questions have been answered.i have followed my fellow commissioners' questions andstaff's responses to them. on each of these items.at this point i do not have any additional questions or issueswith these items and i'd be fine moving them back to the consentagenda.

>> commissioner burman, arethere any items on the nonconsent agenda that you wouldlike to see moved back to the consent agenda?>> no. >> okay.so with that, let us just then vote on the first thing i'd liketo do -- is vote on the consent agenda.and all those in favor of the recommendations on the consentagenda, please indicate by saying aye.>> aye. >> of posed?

hear nothing opposition, therebeing no opposition, the recommendations are adopted.so now we're going to move to the nonconsent agenda.what i'm going to do is ask the appropriate staff member todescribe what the item is about and then we'll take anyquestions or comments beginning with commissioner burman sinceshe's the only one who indicated a request to discuss them.item number 162. >> 162 is case 10 g 0299.park one apartment versuses brooklyn union gas company.it's the appeal of an informal

hearing decision.the customer appealed the informal hearing decisionbecause the customer did not believe that he was responsiblefor $95,000 worth of commodity charges which were billed byhudson energy. he did not believe he wasresponsible for the charges because the contract was notcountersigned by hudson energy. the appeal upholds the informalhearing decision and finds that the customer is responsible forthe $95,000 in unpaid commodity charges.and also indicates that the

other -- that the last meteradjustment was provided to the customer on the distributioncharges. it really wasn't warranted andshould not be provided to the customer on the commoditycharges. >> thank you.ms. burman, your questions? and i do appreciate, you know,this is in a long time coming in making sure that it's reflectivewhen it says the consent agenda that if there are things thati -- or other commissioners may not fully agree with or stillhave some questions that it is a

way of making sure that that isan opportunity at session and also not to have folks thinkthat we're in agreement. but just a clarification, when iasked for something to not be on the consent agenda it does notnecessarily indicate how i may vote.and in fact, all of the items whether they're on the consentagenda, nonconsent agenda or the discussion i don't share withanyone how i am going to vote until i actually am voting.i may indicate internally to council a particular way, but ireserve right up until the time

of my vote voting a certain way.and so any item that's on there should not be a nod to folks tothink that i'm either an up or down on any of the items.so with item 162, when i look at this my question is really as iread this, this is a complainant who's a rate payer with the 30unit apartment building in brooklyn and was an escrowcustomer. and this complaint was broughtin 2009. ultimately, the complaintagainst the escrow was found to not be valid and is beingdismissed.

the question i have is thiscomplaint was brought in 2009. the informal hearing decisionwas in 2010. so is this an outlier in termsof when commission decisions from the informal hearing comebefore the commission? i know that i had seen a numberover the last few months, that seem to be from 2008, 2009, from 2007 and since it dealswith significant monies that the rate payer believes he or shemight be due, i am concerned about our backlog if there isone.

so -->> go ahead. >> as we'll discuss with you andthe other commissioners there was a significant backlog in theappeals unit. i think at the beginning of 2015when mike corso took over the unit -- or took over theconsumer services there was a black log of -- there was abacklog of 97 appeals. this year, we closed moreappeals than we opened which is great news.our goal is to dismiss the appeals backlog by the end of

due to the support from thechair and from tom condon, we have formed an interagency -- orintraagency team of senior staff who's also going to with helpwith appeals. we have hired a manager.we have hired a manager. we have four staff.i think we're right sized for the future and, you know, ithink we're on top of it. this park line is the oldestappeal that we have. so we'll -- you should expect tosee probably four appeals at least on each session goingforward.

and we're trying to cure thebacklog as quickly as possible. >> may i add to that.when i came to the commission, there was a problem with thebacklog. part of the problem is of coursethat this appeal process can be elongated because of complaintsfrom individuals. but also we continue to get moreappeals and there was a question of staffing.one of the things that i asked mr. corso when he took over andthen when luann took over operations is that they reallyfocus on removing this backlog.

i am pleased with the workthey're doing. the other thing i'm particularlypleased about is that not only are the people in office ofconsumer services now looking at this, but luann has alsoassigned a number of other directors and as well as tostart looking at this. i even have a commissioner ortwo who agreed to look at these appeals and help us.because we think it's so important to get through theseand i think that we found that through dedicated action andreally making this a priority

for the commission for the firsttime we're able to work these things through.so while i think nobody wants to see a backlog, what we recognizeis that it's very important and this is really the focus we haveon consumer services in the commission starting with theappointment of our first consumer advocate.>> can i just -- >> sure.>> i feel like the historian. but since the day i came on tothe commission, i think that there always was a huge backlog.much larger and luann correct me

if i'm wrong, larger than whatit is now. so i really do commend the chairand luann and mike corso and all the people who have beeninvolved in trying to rule these down.it's always about staffing problems, that's very difficult.some of these cases do go on and on because after the appeal thenthere's more appeals all the time.so this really is nothing new and that's why i had no problem.i'm glad that, you know, we're seeing this and we're seeing itagain as you said whittled down

to something more manageable.>> commissioner burman? >> thank you.and i am glad to hear that we are sort of whittling down thehearings, the decisions on the backlog since i've come on thecommission i have been laser focused on that backlog.i would like to see a list of all the pending appeals with thedates of the informal hearing decisions as well as the moneythat may be involved. and whether or not it's aresidential or commercial customer.because i do think it's

important that we have a fullunderstanding of the amount of money that may be there,especially if the decision -- the informal hearing decisiongranted relief to the complainant and they arethinking that they are getting money or not having to pay andthen later we may disagree with the informal hearing decision.so that shock to the rate payer, it could be significant.so i would appreciate that. thank you.>> do you have any further comments on this matter?>> no, not on this one.

>> all those in favor of item >> aye.>> aye. >> opposed?hearing no opposition, it is adopted.the next item is 169, in the matter of heating fuel oilsupply with interruptible gas services.can you give us a quick overview of this item?>> sure, it would be my pleasure to.item 169 is case 15 g 0185. it deals with interruptible gasservice customers.

it implements gas utility supplycoordination with interruptible gas service customers.it requires daily communication with demand response customersprior to and during interruptions and the unansweredtask by january 31st of each winter.affidavits of customers attesting to compliance with theutility tariffs and those affidavits must include thecustomers' ultimate fuel supplier information, so if theyneed to contact them, they have that information.>> thank you.

commissioner burman, questionsor comments? >> thank you.so i am glad to see this. i think it's important that welook towards better coordination each and every year.working with as we look at our winter reliability issues aswell as summer reliability and to the extent that we need to berazor focused on the interruptible customers.i was struck by this item in that when i went back and readthe filings that had been put in there, two things sort of struckme about this item which i was

glad for the opportunity to lookat. is that consumer power advocateswhich is an alliance of large not for profit institutions inthe greater new york region which involve hospitals anduniversities as well as other large nonprofits, they filedinitial statements that said due to air quality concerns, naturalgas has become the preferred fuel for many large boilers innew york city. so therefore, especially becauseit's important that hospitals and universities, et cetera,don't have problems with their

reliability of their system.it's important that we take into consideration their thoughts onthis and i was happy to see sort of the diligence of their filingand trying to drill down on it. and then i was also struck bythe multiple interveners comments that was talking aboutand i want to make sure i get this right, in their footnoteone of their comments, they said that due to the shortage ofavailable intrastate natural gas capacity, interruptions havebeen for greater durations so that as a result, interruptiblecustomers have been asked to

burn higher cost alternativefuels and the higher cost of the alternate cost far offset anysavings obtained from interruptible service during theremainder of the year. they also called for in light oftheir critically important nature of intrastate gaspipeline safety with respect to reliability, energyaffordability and achieving the energy initiatives they askedthe that the commission have a more detailed inquiry intofurther consideration and identification of a means toincrease the availability of

intrastate pipeline capacity innew york to addressing those issues.i don't believe we have opened up a new proceeding on that, buti wondered if you could talk a little bit about what we aredoing with that. >> sure.yeah, so you know that staff every year when -- in thesummertime does the -- what we call the winter supply review,we meet with all the utilities and with go over their five yearplans. so we have those meetings everyyear.

and then that's the basis of ourpresentation in october to the commission every year.so we do that. you know, other than that, wehave been having a lot of conversations of the stafflevel. there hasn't been an affirmativedecision made yet for a proceeding, but we're certainlycontinuing to look at that and we're certainly, you know,cognizant of the fact that, you know, there are several pipelineprojects that are on hold right now.so we're looking at that

situation.>> okay. >> just if i can, because ithink there -- because we don't normally speculate on the futureitems. we have this -- this staff isworking with the utilities. we certainly have in our mindswhat's the gas requirements not only for this year and thefuture, and certainly if it's necessary we would bring aproceeding in front of the commission.>> okay. we also have that old 2012natural gas proceeding that i

don't think we have seenactivity on that. i did -- you know, the reasonthis struck me also was that, you know, again, multipleinterveners is a large group of customers, large industrialcustomers and so it's important to, especially with our economicdevelopment initiatives, we would look at that and i wasinfrastructure al -- struck the other day with the saratogaeconomic development corporation and as well as -- i'm blankingon the third party, global parties, have undertaken a studyon the reliability of the system

up there.are we involved in that? >> you know, i don't -- i'mgoing to move for a vote on this.i understand you have a lot of questions.but this has nothing to do with this particular matter which --because we have a big agenda, i would like to just move for avote. >> that's fine.i move to point out i'm reflecting on the two filingsthat talk about this. in here.and it's actually in the order

that says that they -- you know,we didn't necessarily drill down and decide those specific items.so -- but that's fine. we can move for a vote.>> we are going to move for a vote and it wasn't a subjectmatter of this which is why we didn't address it.all those in favor of item 169 please indicate by saying aye.>> aye. >> opposed?so okay. >> excuse me, can i ask thecommissioners to speak closer to the microphones becausesometimes your voices aren't

being picked up to thoseoutside. >> okay.item 170 which is with respect to a waiver of certain tariffprovisions. and cindy, please proceed.>> sure. okay.so this is 16 g 0554, item 170. it's the national grid new yorkor what we call okedny petition for waiver of the annualreconciliation of the gas adjustment clause which is afiling that is required to be made per commission regulations.they asked for a rate of -- a

waiver of the requirement thatthe gac surcharge which would go into effect on january 1stcoincident with the kedny rate increase.the commission requires that the surcharge go into effect onjanuary 1st. they would like to have thatwaived. instead, they would like tophase in -- they asked us to do something different.but they're recommending to the commission that the surcharge bephased in after the first three months of the winter and thencollected during the remainder

of the year.so that the same dollar amount would be collected but it wouldjust be delayed in their implementation.this is being recommended to mitigate bill impacts and toallow recovery of what would be under collections from lastcalendar year because of the very warm weather they were notable -- they didn't have the surplus to collect all of thecharges. >> commissioner burman, andplease if you could just confine yourself to the particularproceeding.

>> i am, but -->> okay. >> thank you.so when i look at this item 170, the draft order says thatthere -- the case number by small customer marketcoalition which was brought in february 4, 2015, to revise therecollect -- reconciliations and was asking to look at that andmake some accommodations and was concerned and wanted to have anexamination of this. so this order here refers tothat order and -- let me make sure i get my page.excuse me.

and says that the items that --the anima national energy marketers and gee and your akand other interested parties and what they had versus theregulations and the processes on generic basis should be furtherconsidered addressed in that proceeding.and that staff shall continue its efforts if that proceedingand report back to the commission prior to next year'sannual reconciliation period. so i have two questions withthat. i'm concerned because thispetition which was brought

before this other petition whichwe're deciding on today, which was brought in the middle of items seem to be related andwe're saying we're not addressing those, we'll havestaff work with you and report back.that seems very open ended to me.and it also is confusing in terms of regulatory certaintyfor those items which also seem to get at the heart of some ofthe concerns that others have in terms of price and costs, etcetera.

so i just wondered what thatprocess would be. and if reporting back meansreporting openly in terms of having an item on the session orjust filing something. >> well, in terms of the futureprocedure we'll make that determination after staffcompletes its investigation of whether or not additional actionis warranted. but so i don't -- i think thatthis is a very typical of the commission.item was raised, we had a particular matter we had toaddress which was the adjustment

for the utility.and we -- you know, the recommended decision is that wenot confuse the two, but that there's a more generic concernaround reconciliations which we're pursuing.so there's nothing to really discuss on that, other than thefact that the order notes that that is something that thecommission is directing this staff to investigate.i'm going to move -- unless you have a further question, that'svery typical of the commission. >> yes, because it's thelanguage in the order to me the

words in the order are veryimportant and that i'm very concerned when i look at orders,i like to make sure that there is regulatory certainty as wellas making sure that we don't have open ended processes andespecially when it comes to referring to a genericproceeding when i look back at the generic proceeding there'sbeen no activity since october so for me, it sourt of -- itsort of fails the threshold of is this providing regulatorycertainty and are we referring to something, especially anotherorder or proceeding outside the

four corners of this order thatmight -- might cause more confusion and also make itw72either seem that we're going to be more active on thatproceeding or in fact it will still remain inactive.and because, you know, i do think -- you know, this has beenthe history of the commission sometimes through genericproceedings have no real life and or may pop to life whenpeople least expect it. so i raise that only because forme, that's why i can only concur with this item and not vote withthe majority on the draft order.

because i don't think thelanguage speaks to the regulatory certainty.>> so that's fine. i would think that we're goingto move to a vote and in the future when you have concernslike this, it is always helpful if you can articulate yourconcern, because we would address things like that in theorder. let's move the vote, item 170.all those in favor of the recommendation please indicateby saying aye. >> aye.>> i concur based on my comments

at session.>> so we're going to move to items 264.which is related to central hudson tariff filings.mike warden -- >> good morning, chair.and commissioners. item 264 -->> speak up. >> item 264 makes permanentcentral hudson tariff lease to effectuate the terms of july 1, as part of this it's approvingthe company's request to continue to use nonproratedelectric supply costs for area

streetlights.since the customers are billed in advance through the end ofthe month it's now possible to prorate.so there are several changes in this, but they're essentiallymechanical in nature. >> great.commissioner burman? >> thank you very much.so the item references an underlying order that was donefebruary 26, 2016, and as you know, i don't always vote withthe majority. so i always need to checkexactly how i did vote and in

this case, i concurred on thisitem and what i had said was that i -- and this was in the --and in the concurring separate statement that i do note that wehave a number of outstanding proceedings of concernresolution of various net metering matters.normally i would seek to resolve these, but not in piecemealfashion. but due to the upcomingeffective start to start such billings needs to be resolvednow, so at that time i supported approval request by the reasonscited by central hudson, because

to grant such requests would because unnecessary time and expense to be incurred.i believe we have those outstanding -- so i will concuragain in light of my past voting record.>> thank you. this is just for the recordagain, this is only with respect to times of billing and is atechnical issue. but so all those in favor ofitem 264, please indicate by >> and i concur as stated in mycomments. >> the next item is item 265which is related to the matter

of rate design reform,supporting rev. and marco -- where -->> there he is. >> hiding.>> please proceed. >> good morning, chair andcommissioners. so item 265 is related to case established to look at thereforming energy vision, and this draft order would adoptwith modifications the compliance tariff filings by allelectric utilities aside from con edison to implement stand byservice, reliability credit and

offset tariffs as laid out inthe rev track 2 order. >> just to be clear, the reasonthat coned is not there, this is -- what coned had alreadyadopted. >> just one clarification onthat. the track 2 order asked coned toimplement the change in its rate case filing which it did.>> so this -- thank you. >> correct.>> commissioner burman? >> thank you.i would also like to thank you for accommodating me and havingeach staffer give a brief blurb

or statement on what the item isabout. i think that's very helpful tothose who are listening as well as for the preservation of thetranscript. so thank you, i do appreciatethat. so if you want me to speak aboutthem together i will or i will reserve my comments for item >> no, that's great.>> no, that's great. that's great.so item 266 -- yeah, let's do them both.>> sure, i could give a brief

summary of 266.which is in case 14 m 0101 which is the rev proceeding and thatdraft order was denied the joint utility petition forreconsideration of the reliability credit and for standby service. it's the only issue that theyasked for reconsideration of the track two order.>> commissioner burman? >> thank you.just pulling up my pages here. so on page 8 of the draft order,it speaks about the track two order and this -- i'm going toread this.

the commission stated that thejoint utility further argument under the as used demandapproach a customer might receive a credit or a highercredit based on external factors such as weather wastheoretically correct. it then went on, the commissionobserved however that it was unclear whether it was practicalto normalize external factors in the context of stand by ratesand the commission noted that whether it is practical tonormalize external factors in the context of stand by ratesshould be developed further.

so that was the language in thetrack two order. we then say in this order thepetition for reconsideration offers no external factors andwe decline to revisit this issue at this time.so my two questions are i'm concerned that or track twoorder said that it should be developed further.we are not accepting the petition for reconsideration atthis time because it offers no practical methods fornormalizing external factors which was also what we didn't doin the track two order.

so now we're declining torevisit that issue at this time, but in track two order, we saidwe would look at this and develop it further.so i'm just confused about whether that language is givingus some certainty about when, where and in what proceedings wemay be looking at this issue. and also noting that sometimes ithink parties shouldn't be obligated to have to come upwith the best solution, but maybe they're identifying anissue that needs further collaboration in realtime.>> so is your economy just to be

clear is whether or not we willcontinue to consider that as -- if we are able to discern a wayto deal with other factors? because these are factors thatmay cause something to fail? >> i'm just -->> i'm just -- >> i'm just trying -->> i'm just trying -- >> i'm reading what the ordersaid, the track two order says that the commission notedwhether it is practical to normalize external factors inthe context of stand by rates should be developed further.so the order was recognizing

that that issue should bedeveloped further. we then say in this order thepetition for reconsideration up offered no practical methods fornormalizing external factors. we decline to revisit that issueat this time. so my question is, based on thetrack two order which seems to indicate that we think it shouldbe developed further, and now we decline to revisit the issue atthis time, what is the trigger to have that looked at anddecide -- >> no, i understand what we saidin the order now.

i understand your question.i think the way -- the reason why i don't think it makes senseto do it at this time is we're in the process in the value ofdistributed energy resource filing to determine how do wevalue distributed energy better on the system.and including in that the types of performance requirements thatwe will -- we will require for compensation.so to me, this -- the issue that the utilities are asking forwhich would be to look at are there ways that you would notcredit the stand by resources

because of the factor that wasunrelated to their performance, but was external to it is a typeof issue that i would expect the value distributed energyresource and to look at. to i feel comfortable that -- soto i feel comfortable that -- so i feel comfortable not to openup a new proceeding which is side issue which is how do youvalue these resources, and at least i'm voting to say let'snot do this now. i don't think any newinformation has been brought up to reconsider having putting inplace the stand by tariffs and

we have a proceeding alreadythat's looking at the valuation of these resources.so no need to open up a new proceeding.that's why i'm voting, correct, commissioner burman orcommissioner sar, you can indicate why you think it makessense -- >> -- there are scores andscores of open issues for the commission to decide.they're all interrelated. it is impossible to have adetailed time frame for each individual issue.we are building the boat as we

sail it.and we're doing the very best job that we can.i don't think this leaves the utility industry in unreasonabledoubt. >> i agree with commissionersayer, and as we learned when we did the energy efficiencyproceedings when we did rev, we used my favorite word calledflexibility. yes, nothing is certain.this is ongoing. i think to jump into somethingnow would lead nor questions than it would answers.so i'm in favor of voting on

this now.>> thank you. and to clarify, i wasn'tsuggesting that we open a new proceeding.what i am suggesting though is that when we have open issuesand when we decline to address it and we actually specificallysay that in an order and don't say we'll never address it or inthis case it's not even saying it should be done in value "d"so people need to know -- and the reference to the boat, idon't swim so i'm worried that we're building the boat becausei'm going to sink.

so my issue is that when we lookat this, i want to make sure that these open issues,especially because there are so many proceedings and the pace ofwhat we're doing it's very easy to drop something that wasstated in an order as an open issue and when we're closing theproceeding, people may not take that and then put it into thevalue "d." some of the folks who areworking on this order, in this proceeding are not necessarilyworking on the value "d" proceeding.so for me it's clarifying that

that issue is likely to pop orbe a part of the value "d" and to the extent it needs to, ifit's not already incorporated in there and making sure that wehave done the proper notice that needs to be done, and that thisgoes on the long tickler list of open issues that need to beaddressed. to the extent that folks feelthat nothing is certain, my concern is that our ordersshould strive to have regulatory certainty and especially becausethere are so many proceedings and so much that needs to bedone and we have limited

resources not only in ourcommission and agency, but in the parties who are trying tomanage and look at all of the different proceedings, they needto know where something may or may not land.>> so commissioner burman, just one thing.again, and -- you know, i appreciate that.but i think that's why i know for commissioner -- when theyhave questions on the clarification of orders weaddress these during briefings and we will make changes.so if you have concerns like

that, i think it's alwayswelcome if you say something's not clear or storing yourbriefings to ask staff. i'm not aware you did that, butmaybe -- >> if i may -->> address how we're handling this.>> i want to try to warrant some uncertainty.particularly with respect to the internal coordination.at the level, they're involved on the cross cutting basis notjust on issues but also departments.all work streams are being

actively tracked so it's truethat not every human being is involved in every issue.but in this issue it said for example marco is -- leads andone of the -- on one of the key team members on value der.more importantly, there is an overlap, a very importantcontributory overlap of the stakeholders who are involved inthese processes. and part of what transpired ifnot on a daily basis, certainly a weekly basis, is thediscussion amongst staff and active stakeholders of whereissues are best resolved.

what the best way to do that.so i appreciate the observations of commissioners sawyer andakapore, this is a dynamic process, it is flexible.i can assure you that there is more than adequate overlapintentionally designed by staff so that we maintain an active --so that we maintain an active -- an active view.>> thank you. i'm not going to respond to thecomment about giving questions ahead of time.i don't think we should be discussing our internalprocesses and what conversations

i may have with council'soffice. and my silence on that does notmean that i am agreeing that i had not given my thoughts orcomments on an item. i just don't think it'sappropriate. but be that as it may, in thiscase and why i think anyone who knows me knows that i am veryclear in what my concerns are generically as well asspecifically, and for me the one thing that is very clear to mething that is very clear to me that i think that i willreiterate in case it's -- it

comes as a shock to folks mymain concern is maintaining the relight of the system, not onlyshort term, but long term planning.and to the extent that we are undertaking an enormousundertaking with many different proceedings, when we look at anorder and when we're writing an order we need to make sure thatwe're as crystal clear as we can.and we should be flagging language in there that isunclear on the pathway forward. and especially when items orlanguage in there indicates that

something is an open issue,especially when it does not have an ordering clause that refersthat to something. i think it's important that wemake sure that those language items get teed up so that afterthe order is out there is some follow-up somewhere to make surethat it falls in the appropriate place.and that the parties that may be interested in that item thattook the time to submit papers on it know where they need tolook for resolution if there is resolution.so i think we can move forward

on 2 -- on the two items.>> well, i -- just for the -- just to make sure it's clear, idon't think there's anyone sitting up on this panel whocares more about reliability than anyone else.i think we're all very, very cognizant of that.i think we're also cognizant of the complexity of what we'relooking to do. and the -- you need to deal withmultiple proceedings. i also think that the -- that mycomments around having an efficient process where everyoneknows each other's concerns so

we can vote and look to whetheror not there are good ideas is an important part of having amultimember commission and that's -- that was why i say ioffer to everyone if there's a way to improve, we'd like tohear about it because we always look to improve.items 265 and 266, i'll take as a group.all those in favor, all indicate by saying aye.>> aye. >> opposed?>> i concur on both items permit comments.>> item 267.

is in the matter of thecomprehensive management and operations audit of a long listof subsidiaries and/or staff -- and doris, welcome.>> item 267 recommends that the commission request a proposalfor an independent third party consulting firm to conductmanagement and operations audits of two subsidiaries.the new york state electric and gas corporation.and rochester gas and electric corporations.these audits will focus on construction program planningand operational efficiency.

with an emphasis on improvingperformance consistent with section 6619 of the publicservice law. >> commissioner burman, do youhave questions or comments about this management audit?>> so the reason that i flagged this is it is -- it's not thefirst audit to consider rev questions.however, it is the -- the scope of it and the scope of rev hasevolved and so for me i flagged this because there's a lot ofthings in rev that are still being worked through.and to the extent that the

auditors may be having toevaluate whether a particular utility in this case -- theutility that we have before us as a management audit, whetheror not they're meeting their objectives and the drilling downon whether they have a successful audit or have someconcerns. i want to make sure that theinformation given to the independent consultants on whatthe metrics and what the overall objectives and what the revfocus is is very clear as well as insuring that it is notfollowing one particular

position because there are somany open proceedings. i wondered how --i think it was heaven calling. i wondered how that going to getdone in this audit and understanding that this isreally the first full scope rev dive in an audit.>> doris do you want to respond? i'll just offer my observations.i think that the issue of the management audit is really aboutthe preparation of the management team to addressissues that are either current or forward looking forutilities.

i see these audits as anopportunity to look at the processes that the utilitiesadopt, the way they're managing and their capabilities and thehistorical audit has found flaws in operations or concerns thatwe go back and we look to make certain those have beenaddressed. i would note that we did moremanagement audits in the last couple of years than we ever hadever since we reinvigorated that process several years ago and myinformal conversations that i have had with utilities postaudits because i meet with each

of the utilities every year totalk about operations is that the utilities themselves findthese audits and their depth and scope as to be a greatopportunity frankly for a new set of eyes to take a look atwhat's going on. and that they can look at thisas opportunities to improve. thank the -- i think that interms of rev it's not a particular rev item.it's really thinking about as the utilities are looking at achanged world where there's more distributed energy, where youhave customers who want more

choice, where you have customerswho want more information, where you need a different -- adifferent capability arounddigiu need a different capabilityaround marketing, where they're worried about things like makingsure that they have the right kind of staff and structure toadapt and be much more -- to where things are going, thatthese types of audits give them a sense and us a sense as howthe utilities are really rethinking their businesses todeal with a very changed world with the industry, and i -- so,i wouldn't tie this to any

particular proceeding.it's really rev as it's become a noun in this industry, is reallyabout a utility that is a distribution system platformproviding a much greater level of services, much moreaccommodating to a clean energy future, and really a verydifferent thinking about how they will operate and managetheir systems. so, i -- i look at this ashelping us and helping the utilities really understand whatchanges they've made and what changes they're contemplatingand then really learn from each

other as we do it and that's, tome, these audits are really a great opportunity to shed alight and when we're in re cases, we often doinvestigations of particular issues, but we really don't havethe time to do that kind of broad look and analysis, so ifeel like we're very, very fortunate in new york that thisagency actually has the responsibility to do these typesof management audits, because it really can -- allows us to set astandard, operating standard, for our utilities that isactually much higher than most

states.and so, i think that this is, you know, looking at this, andlooking forward and thinking about how this changes have tobe made and how you're organizing is welcome and i'mappreciative of the fact that the staff, in fact, isrecognizing that and is making sure utilities are thinkingabout these things as well. >> and all of that, you know,and make no mistake, i believe strongly that a good,well-balanced and independent management audit can be reallygood for all the parties, but

especially the people of newyork, and so when i look at this, there is a lot -- in rev,this, there is a lot -- in rev, there is a lot that is stilluncertain. the utilities have filed theirdsips and even in that, there's going to be tension over oneutility's dsip and someone else might be perceived as an outlierand there might be tension with staff in terms of some of that.so, to the extent that, especially, i know, centralhudson, you know, had their audit completed, and, you know,it was -- i believe it was

pre-the dsip but when you lookat it, one of them is assessing the utilities planning andintegrating their maintenance and modernization efforts astied into the distributed service implementation plan so iraise it really as a question as well as making sure that what wegive to the -- and the subject matter experts, what they giveto the consultants really needs to be, you know, factual andbased on what the orders and the direction of the commission areand not necessarily, you know, their -- what might still befuzzy or still being debated or

possibly having petitions forrehearings that are out there. so that the audit comes out withclarity as well as helping us to insure that we are making surethat it is as robust as it can be based on accurate informationon the processes of rev and also identifying where there is stillgray areas so that the consultant is making sure thatthat is not stepping into the proceeding and makingdeterminations that may color the utility, either positivelyor negatively, but actually just straight-up factually.>> commissioner acampora?

>> i think, again, i'm going tobe the historian. one of the first things i lookedat when i first came to the commission was the fact thatthere were no management audits, and when i had the opportunityto chair the commission, i instituted those, and i thinkthat, make no mistake, our staff is fully capable of vetting,through an rfp process, who will get the determination of beingthe group that goes in and makes these audits.and i think they lay out a very clear map for the auditors to dowhat exactly that we are asking

them to do.i don't think we've ever found an audit that was in any wayfuzzy, because they knew what they were supposed to do, andmany times, they even went beyond and brought back thingsthat were helpful and not detrimental.so i think that this item is very clear cut.it's something we've done in the past.it's been one of the best tools we've had in our toolbox overthese years, and i think, as the chair had said, the companieswould agree also, and then it

gives us something to reallydepend upon when we are looking at a ray case.these are very valuable when it comes to looking at a ray case,which we'll be doing later. so, again, this is clear cut,so, again, this is clear cut, this is something we've done inthe past. our staff knows how to do theinterviews, how to go through the rfp process, and i think,you know, there should be no concern about that.>> anything to add? commissioner sayre?>> i don't see the proposed

audit as in any way a complianceaudit with respect to rev or anything else in the way ofcommission order, compliance. that would be a different kindof audit. this is a management audit todetermine whether they're prepared for the future.and where we say rev preparation in the future, as the chairsaid, we're looking at a transformation of the utilityindustry that's happening everywhere, not just new york,with the addition of distributed energy resources.i think we're ahead of the curve

in new york in making regulatorypreparations for that change, but it's happening anyway, andone of the things that we're asking the auditors to look atis whether the utilities are ready for this transformation.>> i'm going to move to vote on item 267.all those in favor of the recommendations, please indicateby saying aye. >> and i concur based on mycomments at session. >> recommendations are adopted.item number 270 is the proceeding to seek consequencesagainst lenic power and gas for

violation against uniformbusiness practices. chair, you're back.>> so, atlantic energy is a pretty small esco with acomparatively small number. staff has been working withatlantic since july. we issued a notice of parentfailure against atlantic in july.we got partial responses to the notice, and we've since receivedadditional complaints. so, the next logical step in theprocess is for the commission to do an order to show cause, whichwill require atlantic to file

additional information with thecommission. do you have specific questions,commissioner burman? >> no, your summary wassufficient. i will say that i've stated myposition that enforcement of bad escos or potentially bad escosare important and that we are not in this order to show causein any way making a judgment about the actual actions of theesco, but really doing it to fully inform our decision and ashas been stated before, most recently at the septembersession, staff then works with

the esco, and i know we have twothat were brought forward at the september session that staff, ibelieve, are still working through those and we may seethem at some point. >> yeah, there's actually threein the september session, and we -- they filed additionaldocuments and we have meetings scheduled with each of thoseescos. >> okay.thank you. >> and i believe your commentsare understood by the other commissioners, hence why it wason consent.

all those in favor of item 270,please indicate by saying aye. >> a aye.>> aye. >> item 271 is the proceeding onthe motion of commission to consider the rates and chargesfor electric and gas for conosin.mr. warden. >> good morning again.item 271 basically extends rate credits for customers, gas andelectric, until rates are reset by the commission.there is a pending rate case in front of you.it was scheduled to be heard

this month at the 11-monthperiod for deciding a rate case. the company has asked for anextension of that period. these credits were expected toexpire at the end of this year, so if they expired, there wouldbe a rate change and then a subsequent change when you resetrates. so this just keeps them steadyuntil you reset rates when we come to you.simple. >> any questions on item 271?>> i couldn't have said it better myself, so i'mcomfortable with voting for this

item.thank you, michael. >> thank you.>> all right. so, all those in favor of item >> item 362.michael. >> i'm on a roll now.we'll keep going, see how we do. this item implements tarifffilings on alternative projects for central hudson.you previously considered this in july.central hudson simply updated its tariff filing to modify thewording for cross allocation.

that's the extent of this tarifffiling. >> all those in favor -- do youhave comments on this compliance filing?>> i just wanted to reflect that last time, when we had looked atthis item, i had issued a concurring statement and talkedabout the need that we are -- for me, these alternativeprojects can be wonderful and something that we can look to aspart of our rev processes while we're focused on a reliable gridthat helps to maintain our system reliability and howimportant, again, all of this

is, the most important is oursystem reliability. so, thank you.>> again, i think everyone would agree with that.so, all those in favor of 362, >> 365, which is a filing bynational to update l.e.d. straight light wattage.i think we'll just have you do the rest of these, mr. warden.>> okay, good. this one literally updates thewattage available through tariffs that national grid hasand it's based on bids that it receives from providers,suppliers, and the ones that

they wanted to select, it camefrom the lowest bidder to those things and they're just updatingthe wattages, simply, that customers can sign up for.>> any questions on item 365? >> i do.>> all those in favor -- >> no, i said i do.>> oh, you do. okay.>> i would like to know about the ongoing working group withthe street lighting, the interagency working group andworking with the different municipalities.so for me, it's focused on

making sure that we are lookingcarefully at all of our different tariffs and theactions that we're taking and working through any challenges.so, is that still an ongoing -- >> it is ongoing.we do have a number of items that you'll be seeing in thefuture months on street lighting.you know, we don't have the people here that are leadingthat today to really kind of brief you on that.it's kind of outside the scope of this.>> it is.

it's not -- right.it's not -- right. it's not before us today, andi'll suggest this. why don't we look for a timethat, michael, you can brief all the commissioners, obviously,we're happy to do that, commissioner burman, but in theinterest of efficiency of time today, when we have all thesepeople in the room and a lot of matters in front of us, i'drather just stick to the published agenda, so i'll justtake a vote on 365. if you have specific questionsabout this, i'm happy to have

someone ask them -- answer them.okay. hearing none, all those in favorof 365 -- >> and i will concur with thecaveat that i would like to see, in some fashion, a report thathelps to summarize the status of street lighting overall and makesure that we are all looking carefully at the differenttariffs and different challenges and working through so that wecan have a comprehensive policy on street lighting.thank you. >> again, i -- that's not the --would be in front of us today,

but we will offer to brief thecommissioners. so, moving on to item 375, whichis a petition for relief from net metering caps.mr. warden. >> so this item, it's really apetition on behalf of a number of developers and utilitiesjointly fiel jointly filed with thecommission and what it does, it's really much simpler than itappears. it relieves the developers froma responsibility to get projects in service by the end of 2017 inorder to maintain monetary

credits for net metering.these are credits that you made available back in 2015.you did a good job in really kind of animating the market forthese projects and through 2015 and 2016, we had a large influxof projects. i think i briefed you previouslyon those projects, and because of that, the utilities haddifficulty keeping up with the engineering aspects and theconstruction aspects, so this commits the developer to pay forthe upgrades to the utility system and it commits them todoing their work and takes them

off the hook if the utility isnot able to complete their construction work by 2017.so that's, in essence, what it does.>> this is actually -- this item, i would just add tomichael, just my observation, is that after -- because of thework we've been doing around solar in new york, we've hada -- over 300% increase in solar installations and this is anexample of where, frankly, the work of staff, collectively withthe utilities and the developers, are working togetherto work through what some people

would say is a high classproblem where we have more solar coming in than we've ever hadbefore and we're looking to address these in a way that'scollaborative as opposed to antagonistic.so i think this item reflects, really, an attitude in new yorkthat we work to get things done rather than fight things out.so, i think it's a good item and i'm pleased to see it.any questions or comments on it? >> my comments are reallyrelated to, i think, that interconnection issues and netmetering issues are really very

important.i've been consistent in my concerns on the increasinginterconnection application. while that's a positive, we alsopotentially need to be concerned about what that means on oursystem reliability as well as the overload in terms of goingthrough the interconnection application and at some pointneeding to have some clarity on those aspects and also addressthe significant challenges and issues.i am glad to see that there's an interconnection, technicalworking group.

i will, though, point out thatwe have many, many different working groups.i'm not really sure the full scope of them or the full scopeof whether they're active or not, and exactly what -- andwhat their overlap is. to the extent that there'sinterconnection working group seems to be now up and running,not necessarily from any commission order that i canfind, that we do need to be careful about making sure thatwe are fully looking at all the different issues and addressingthem, especially because folks

need clarity and certainty,especially when they're trying to make business decisions onbeing a part of new york and the scope of -- and the increase inthe interconnections cause me a great deal of concern.>> we actually have two interconnection working groups,an interconnection policy working group and aninterconnection incoma interconnection technicalworking group and we work very closely with the value group tomake sure that the two are aligned and that we don't dothings to conflict with each

other.so those are very important. i would point out that, youknow, number one, for me, personally, is safety.that's the most important thing that i do.the second most important thing is reliability.so if we do this stuff on the technical things for dg and wedon't keep the system reliable, we have a problem.so we fully recognize that. >> i don't think our staff needsto be reminded of these issues. any other further questions?comments?

okay.i have to put my dplasz i have to put my glasses backon. so, all those in favor of itemnumber 375, please indicate by saying aye.item 377 is a rider. >> i'm back.item 377 deals with case 16 b >> you're fading.>> i got it. that was me.sorry. got it.in the draft order would adopt the tariff amendments withmodifications to be effective

for the program year of 2017.>> any questions or comments with respect to this item?>> yes, i do. >> commissioner burman?>> so here, again, going back to language, we have, on page 13and then something else on page we're talking about energyspectrum's comments. i also want to give kudos toenergy spectrum for their always willingness to be very detailedand in the weeds on things. it's appreciated.and so here, we have that we are discussing that we view energyspectrum's request as an

opportunity for the company tooffer an enhanced service to aggregators who wish tosubscribe to this service for an additional fee and we thereforewill ask con edison and energy spectrum to work with departmentof public service staff to determine if providing realtimeupdates to forecasts is of interest to other aggregatorsand if so to develop the basis of the fee for these informationservices that we're asking our utilities to develop to supportthe customer facing activities of aggregators and other marketparticipants.

so, that, to me, means thatwe're not addressing it here, but we're asking folks to worktogether. it's unclear to me in whatcontext, proceeding, and when it may get resolved.and then on page 15, we say, and this is, again, talking aboutsomething that energy spectrum brought up.that -- this is talking about to the extent that our netmetering, net energy metering customer participates in drprogram that provides load reduction during events, this isabout double payments if the

generator's not operating at thetime and we say that while the commissioner recognizes thisconflict, the issue of interactions between nem andother distributed level markets should be carefully consideredon a statewide basis with ample opportunity for stake holderengage. therefore, staff shall addressthis. so, first, thank you for beingclear in this to which proceeding it should be.however, i do point this out to make sure because there is noordering clause that states that

this item should be taken careof in value d, that i laser focus it for folks that thelanguage that's in the order that talks about that particularitem should be in the value d proceeding, so for that and theother one, will be addressing, not sure exactly where.>> okay. so, let me -- i think the valued is clear. on the second one, just on thefirst, let me just be clear about that because if it's not,we can certainly look to clarify the order.i think the determination was

that the realtime streaming wasnot necessary to implement the changes that con ed wasproposing or was it a particularly cost effective wayof updating dr provider or aggregators in terms of changesin the forecast. but at the same time, under rev,we're always looking for opportunities for companies toimprove services to third parties.this would be a voluntary activity on the part of con ed,not a required activity, but it's a learning opportunity, ithink, to think about what

could -- what kind of servicesthat the -- the aggregator may value may not be of particularvalue to the utility or other nonparticipating customers, butcould be something that provides a source of additional revenuesto the utility, which then, of course, would offset theiroperating expenses, which then would yield benefit in terms ofbeing able to reduce their regulated revenue requirements,all what we contemplate in track two of revs, so i think what theorder just notes is that this is an opportunity to develop whatwe call, as these types of

fee-based services, that areforward leaning, that are customer oriented, notnecessarily just to provide a reasonable service orreliability services but could be a value add to a new customerbase, aka the aggregator base on the der provider so it doesn'tneed a proceeding. it's really an opportunity forthe company to develop a product, but like any otherproduct, if it's just one customer who wants it, then it'snot much of a market and i would think any vendor would want todo some due diligence in terms

of, is there a market for thisservice, is it broader than one entity, and if so, what wouldthey be willing to pay because if you price it wrong, nobodywill buy it. so this is really, to me, not aproceeding, not anything other than what we would expectutilities to do and say, hey, we don't see the value of this fordoing what we need to do, but if there's a market out there,we'll want to explore that potential.so, it's -- that's the way i -- that's the way the order iswritten.

anyone else have any questions?comments about that? >> so -- >> okay.nobody can hear you. i don't think it was meant to bea working group. really, it was, to me, the way ilook at it, i'm -- the reason why i'm recommending that wevote on this, i think it's probably -- is that it's alearning opportunity. we're all learning here on howto think about businesses, think about these opportunitiesdifferently.

staff really doesn't need to beinvolved but i wanted staff to be involved because it was anopportunity for them to begin to understand how we can developthese new products that we didn't see a value to, but themarket sees a value to. and we wanted everyone to seethis as a learning opportunity. but not a full proceeding.okay. aye.>> and i concur based on my comments at session.>> okay. next one is 379.and that is the proceeding to

seek consequences against astralenergy, llc. you are batting clean-up.>> so, this is an item which will reinstate astral energy'sability to market to commercial customers in new york.as you know, the commission suspended astral's ability tomarket in november 6, 2015. since then, they've revamped allof their marketing processes. they've -- they've filed uvpcompliance sales agreements. they've hired additionalemployees to strengthen provision of third partymarketers and they've addressed

a number of compliance andquality control issues that we've raised with them.do you have specific questions, commissioner burman?>> yes, i do. so, page 7 of the order statesthat in the monitoring of astral, should staff find thatthe company is not in compliance with the ubp, staff shall takeswift action and bring such instances of noncompliance tothe commission without delay, and then it goes on, as providedfor in ubp section 2.d.5, should astral fail to comply with theubp, or the commission's

regulations and orders, thecommission will seriously consider revoking astral'sability to operate as an esco in new york state or imposing anyother consequences the commission may deem appropriate.i just want to flag to make sure that it's absolutely clear thatit would be the commission as the body and also that therewould be proper due process in line with our ubp and thesection referenced. >> i think that's clear in theorder. >> yes.>> okay.

all those in favor of item 379,please indicate by saying aye. >> so, okay.it's 10 to 12:00. my watch says it's time tostand, but i'm not going to. do we want to take afive-minute, ten-minute break and then we'll come back, giveeveryone a minute? because we're going to go, then,into the regular agenda and then go through it.okay, ten minutes. >>> we're now going to proceedfor the regular agenda. our feist -- first item today is

for kidney and kedly rates.it's presented by administrative law judges david van art andjames costello. mr. costello has recently joinedthe agency, and we want to welcome you and also note thatwe want you to stay. i think cindy and doris are alsohere available for questions, but mr. van ort, you're going tobe beginning, right? >> that's correct.>> thank you. welcome.>> good afternoon, chair women and commissioners.you have before you a proposed

draft order, which was preparedby judge costello and myself which incorporates the input ofadvisory staff. the order would adopt the termsof a joint proposal filed on september 7 and establishthree-year gas rate plans for kedney and kedly, covering thecalendar years 2017 through the draft order also resolvesfive other cases pending before the commission.however, there are three minor modifications that we arerecommending to the joint proposal.the first would involve a

requirement for annual reportingregarding implementation of the rev demonstration projects.the second would require a study of potential impacts ofeliminating the declining block rate structure and the thirdwould allow individual customers in the sc 2 category who wereovercharged between 2008 and actual amount that they lostgreater than the credit that is provided for in the order andtherefore recover that additional amount.the joint proposal was executed by the two companies, staff, andseven other parties representing

a wide array of interests,municipal, environmental, large metropolitan, real estate,residential, consumers, and escos, and there are fourparties opposing the joint proposal, mostly on discreteissues. the proposed order eitherresolves the issues raised or explains the basis for theopponent's recommendations being rejected.i'll provide you with some additional background on the tworate cases and a few salient features of the rate cases inorder.

judge costello will provide youwith additional key elements to the joint proposal in order andalso discuss the joint proposal consistency with thecommissioner's settlement guidelines.the need was precipitated to a large extent by the fact thatkedney and kenly have not sefrd increases in many years despiceincreases in many years despice increases in capital and costs.the last base rating increase took place in 2008 and that wasa one time increase. the last base rate increase forkedney occurred more than a

decade prior to that time.as you know, these rate filings were made in january.they were updated in april. and again, by the companies injune rebuttal testimony. if adopted as proposed by thecompanies in rebuttal, delivery base rates for kedney wouldincrease by approximately and kenly's would increase byapproximately $180 million or these percentages are stated asa net revenue increase as a percentage of total revenues.the increases also include rolling into base rates,recoveries of site investigation

remediation costs, which werepreviously recovered via annual surcharge for kedney and kenlyand since the surcharges would be eliminated, the net revenueincrease for kedney would be about $269 million and about shifting these costs into baserates would not increase the customer bills and that's animportant point and i'll talk more about the s.i.r. costs in amoment. subsequent not filing, partiesinitiated review and conducted extensive discovery.testimony and exhibits in

response to the rate proposalswere filed by staff and 11 other parties.staff, however, is the only party that has filed analternative revenue requirement recommendation.staff recommended base rate revenue increases ofapproximately $263 million for kedney and approximately consistent with the companiesdemonstration, staff also included a shifting of s.i.r.cost recovery from surcharge to base rate.that's the overall delivery

revenue increase for eachcompany would be somewhat less than that.the parties thereafter initiated settlement negotiations andseveral changes were precipitated as a result of thecontinuing negotiations. the parties were confronted withsignificant challenges in conducting their negotiations.balancing the interests of the various parties against the needfor rate increases and the potential financial impact thatthose increases could have on customers.the signatory parties, however,

ultimately reached an agreementon the rate plan, which is embodied in the joint proposal.i should note that there was substantial public comment inthese cases. the commission secretaryreceived a large number of written comments and the vastmajority of those comments expressed opposition to theproposed rate increases. public comments were alsoreceived at six public statement hearings, three held in kedneyservice territory and three held in kefly service territory.that was followed up by the

parties submitting statements insupport or opposition to the joint proposal and replystatements and then in october, we held an evidentiary hearingto allow parties the opportunity to question witnesses for thejoint proposal proponents and to test the reasonableness of theprovisions contained therein. none of the parties chose tocross examine witnesses. nonetheless, the hearing recordin these cases is extensive. there are -- composed of 540exhibits. the prefiled testimonysupporting work papers and

exhibits filed in these casesconstitutes several thousand pages.the draft order before you, if adopted, will still result insignificant delivery rate increases for kedney's andkefry's customers. on an unlevelized basis, thefirst year's base rate increase was approximately $272 millionfor kedney and approximately these increases are needed tofund additional capital improvements and various o and mimprovements. these also include s.i.r. costsand recovery of a portion of the

deferral amount that will be, asof december 31 of this year, it's recovery is at 1/10.the joint proposal and the order reflect and allow r.o.e. of 9%and equity ratio of 48% and that is for both companies.they also have an sharing mechanism which would captureearnings above 9.5%. in order to mitigate the impactof these on customers through levelization.the average annual increase for kedney would be approximately is substantially lower than thecompany's proposals.

the order has provisions whichalso further reduce the impact of these increases on low incomecustomers. those most adversely impacted byrate increases. we believe in totality thatthese mitigate the extent. now, just turning back to thes.i.r. issue for a moment because that's usually thegorilla in the closet. as you know, these costs haveplagued many of our regular utilities.cost recovery is an extremely complicated issue.cost, timing, and the extent of

remediation are largely beyondthe control of the utility and may involve other potentiallyresponsible parties or prp pz. the record in this case isextensive in that regard. it illustrates substantialefforts on the part of the companies and seekingcontribution for the clean-up costs, identifying other prps,obtaining insurance recovery and litigating other claims.and i just point out with respect to the 1/10 recovery ofthe deferred s.i.r. cost that that is not as aggressive as thecommission has provided for in

other cases so that's -- itreduces the impact on customers. also note that the s.i.r. costsare forecasted to decrease after the first year.with the exception of the clean-up of the giwannis canaland the newtown creek, the costs for those projects are as yetunknown. with that in mind, the partieshave fashioned a provision to allow for a surcharge beginningin rate year two of s.i.r. costs that exceed the rate allowanceby $25 million. however, there is also a cap onthat amount, limited to 2% of

the prior years aggregaterevenues and i should note that kedney does not have a similarprovision because it doesn't have these issues at this point.in the event that it incurs incremental costs, it would beallowed to petition for recovery.and at this point, i'll turn the presentation over to mycolleague, judge costello. >> good afternoon and thank you.i'm going to focus my comments on two of the programs in whichthere are large capital expenditure increases andthey're driven basically by

policy -- commission policyhere. the first being the low incomediscount program. in may of 2016, the commissionissued its order in the low income -- generic low incomediscount proceeding. and which it set as a guide thatenergy household expenditures be no more than 6% of householdincome. it also set forth a tieredsystem of discounts which would be tied to a recipient's levelof benefits that they receive under the home energy assistanceprogram.

the companies will be phasing insuch programs in the course of these rate plans.there is significant increases for funding for both companiesfor them to do so. with kedney, the funding beingincreased from $9.8 million to which is 155% increase and withkefly, funding been increased in a 64% increase in the first yearand in the first year, the companies anticipate providingwhat would be equivalent to the tier 1 discount level forcertain eligible heat -- residential heating andnonheating customers with a $19

per month discount for kedneycustomers, those are the heating customers, and a $41 a monthdiscount for kefl discount for kedly customers.in the second year of the program and the third year, thefull program as required under your order would be implemented.also, kedney intends and will be doing an hra file matchingprogram no later than the spring of 2017 in order to identifyfurther eligible customers, and kedly anticipates doing the samebeginning in january of 2018, contingent upon the commission'sapproval of their deferring the

costs for implementing theprogram. the next program in which thereare a large capital expenditure increases is the -- for theleak-prone type replacement programs.there are significant increases in funding, which is attemptingto bring the companies in line with the commission's statedgoal to have leak-prone pipe replaced in the state within 20years. the capital spending for theproactive leak-prone pipe mileage is being increasedsignificantly.

for kedney, it's going up from which is current to $93 millionin the first year or 94% increase.it's then going up to or 140% increase and year.for kedly, the amounts will be going from $89 million to then to $158 million andultimately the third year, to the leak-prone pipe total targetmileage is also going up, so that kedney's current mileage in

leak-prone pipe.that's going up to 55 miles per year in the first rate year, 60miles until the second rate year, and 65 in the third rateyear. kedly is making significantincreases. they are going from 95 miles peryear to 115 miles per year in the first rate year, 135 milesper year in the second rate year, and 155 miles per year inthe third rate year. the joint proposal also containsan incentive for the companies to achieve cost -- unit costsavings over the amounts of unit

cost that's reflected in baserates. the companies will continueusing their risk ranking algorithm to prioritize thereplacement of leak-prone pipe and take into considerationconcerns by new york city and the environmental defense fund,beginning in the second year, they will also be taking intoaccount, with all else being equal, the location ofleak-prone pipe in flood areas and they'll be taking intoconsideration methane leak flow data in retiring leak-pronepipe.

they will also be usinginnovative programs that if proven successful willultimately result in large cost savings.one of those is the cast iron joint sealing robot, or cisbot,which allows 80 joints to be sealed without the main beingput out of service, so that's a benefit to the community in thatthere's no disruption because it's only one excavation andthere's no disruption in the service.they'll also be using cured in place pipelining, which allowsthe refurbishing of one mile of

pipe at one half the cost ofreplacing that pipe. in addition to these programs,the jp resolves certain other proceedings.one, as judge van ort discussed, is a one-time credit for certainkedney customers in the sc 2 class.they will be getting a one-time credit that will be going toheating customers, which we remembered -- we recommend bemodified so those customers can come in with actual billing andestablish a greater refund amount due, they have theability to do so.

it will also resolve three taxrefund cases with credits of over $22 million going tocustomers. another benefit for thecommunities is that under the jp, there will be 380 new jobscreated, so with that, we believe that there's an amplerecord providing you with a rational basis to determine thatthe jp has appropriately balanced the interests of theshareholders, of the rate payers and of the utilities in such away that it allows the utilities to provide safe and reliableservice at just and reasonable

rates, and basically, thatincludes ou concludes our presentation andwe're available for any questions.>> thank you, mr. costello. so, before i remove -- i havea -- my observations. just a very quick question, ithink. the -- with respect to the lowincome discount, i know that the public utility law projecthas -- did not join into the jp, but this is not an area of thejp they objected to, is that correct?>> that's correct.

>> okay.one thing that i would note about this particular rate caseand i can talk to the advisory staff when it came in is thatthis was a case where neither party had -- neither company hadbeen in for quite some time. in fact, the rates that wereputting in today are actually lower than the rates that werein place, i believe, in and what staff told me is thatthe company did a very, actually, good job of reducingtheir demand to really the bare minimum of increases based oncost drivers that they are

doing.so i'm like, my favorite regulatory term, the normalkabuki dance between regulators and regulated companies whereeveryone sort of comes in high and someone comes in low, andthen they know where they're going to go, in this case, thecompany, in advance, really took a look at it and i think triedto limit its request to areas that they knew from a policyperspective the commission was already had recommended andwhere our policies were, so in that, i frankly commend thecompany.

irrespective of that, there'sobviously always a concern on the part of this agency whenwe're looking at rate increases. energy is essential.and we know -- and we also know that we'd like to maintain itsaffordable and as regulators, our job is to make sure that ourrates are not set in a hot level that is higher than necessarybut is sufficient for the company to be able to operateits system in a safe and reliable way as well as attractinvestment as a reasonable expense.and with that, though, i commend

the fact that the parties triedto address, really, the effect on consumers by looking at anumber of different ways to mitigate the impact that thiswas -- of the change. clearly, you know, the types ofdrivers for this increase, the need to replace leak-prone pipein an area that's very important for the commission.it's important from the perspective of safety.we want to eliminate leak-prone pipe as quickly as possible.we have a policy towards doing that.and i know both companies have

been aggressive in helpingpursue that policy and have placed a lot of capital intoeffectively replace the pipe. and also, as noted in the jp,are looking at alternative technology ways to be able toaddress our concerns about safety in a way that's more costeffective and less disruptive. the cisbot technology is one andi got to chance to see it and it's pretty incredible what canbe done. so i'm appreciative of the workbeing done there. the other major cost driver, ofcourse, is the issue of -- of

clean-up.a super fund site. again, these are often areasthat the company might have inherited or is historic, andfrankly, a reminder of when we don't pay attention to theenvironment, it can come back and bite us and the need thatreally generations today are having to pay for the fact thatpeople didn't pay attention in the past is the sort of thingwe're trying to avoid with the cs and other things we're doingnow. so with respect to that, i alsoknow that the commission

previously put in place, again,i think it was maybe even under commissioner acampora'sdirection, a requirement that we look at the super fund sites andthat the staff aggressively pursue making sure that thecompanies are taking all actions necessary to reduce the impacton consumers, and i think, in this case, staff reviewed it,they sent interrogatories and felt that as the judgesmentioned, that the company did take all the actions they could,and as a result, were able to substantially reduce the amountof what they -- what otherwise

would have been charged forconsumers, so met our objective of setting the right types ofincentives and pressures. the last issue with respect tothe changes in addition to those we mentioned was also propertytaxes have gone up and that happens when company replacesold infrastructure with new infrastructure.there are additional property taxes that are associated withit. these are costs that we'rerequired to pass through. and in terms of the low incomediscounts, that's a way for us

to avoid, frankly, customers notbeing able to pay their bill but certainly a policy of thiscommission to maintain energy affordable.so i think, you know, i'm certainly satisfied that thedrivers of this rate increase and the actions that have beentaken to minimize the effect were both taken by the company,even before they filed and now through the rate plan in termsof three years rate plan as well as other actions they're takingto mitigate impacts really results in a just and reasonablerate.

i would notice the return onequity that is baked into this case is actually lower than thereturn on equity that the company currently has placedtoday. and is consistent with thereturns that we are offering to other utilities.so, i feel very strongly that, with these actions, plus theother issues that we are addressing in this jp, such aslooking at additional conservation measures to helpreduce costs to consumers, again, looking at technology asa way of reducing costs to

consumers, really, one, iscertainly necessary. it's our obligation to providerates -- revenue requirements that are compensatory for costsincurred. the rates, i believe, theresulting rates are just and reasonable.and i applaud -- i know the hard work of the members who workedon the settlement to find solutions.i know that in any settlement, there are individual issues thatan individual party may find is not to their liking, but the artof settlement, just like the art

of negotiations, in fact, ourpresident-elect wrote a book about that, requires some levelof compromise, and so we do need to recognize that this is apackage. there may be individual issuesthat we would have thought about differently, but i think that,for me, when i look at -- both on balance but actually theparticular items, i think that the jp results in a fair result,a necessary result, and i intend to vote to approve it.so, thank you. i'll go -- who wants to gofirst?

commissioner sayre.>> it's certainly not a unanimous settlement, but itdoes have enough of a critical mass from very diverse partiesthat it warrants serious consideration.it's really inevitable that we've got to give thesecompanies a significant base increase because of, as thejudges said, one of them hasn't been in for eight years for abase rate increase and the other has been for something spanllyover ten years since it had a base rate increase.the provisions in the settlement

that moved me to accept it are,as explained by the judges, very substantial increase in the lowincome program, which helps ameliorate the impact of theincrease for the customers who can least afford it.the significant acceleration in the replacement of leak-pronepipe. and in my view, the savings ofat least $2 million of rate case expenses, because at least in myview, one rate case that would otherwise have happened in thefuture isn't going to happen because we have a three-yearplan.

the three-year plan also allowsus to gradually feather in the necessary rate increases.it's tough to approve a big rate case.but we have to balance the public interest, includingeverybody affected. we have to recognize thatutilities are legally entitled to an opportunity to earn areasonable return on the assets that they've placed prudently inpublic service. they're entitled to recovertheir expenses that they have prudently made in the course ofpublic service.

i think this settlement strikesa fair balance and makes -- comes up with a just andreasonable balance. >> to the left?okay. commissioner burman.>> thank you. i was nervous when you firststarted talking, because as a former colleague at the court ofappeals and as a former alum, i wanted to make sure that you dida great job and you did. so, congratulations.so, question -- i have a couple questions related to -- and i'mnot sure whether it's you or --

>> are you speaking tomr. costello or mr. van ort? >> mr. costello.>> okay. >> former alum at the court ofappeals. so what i'm curious about is,what is the legal standard for our approval of the jointproposal and i understand that, you know, parties have to makecompromises for them to come to agreement and settlement, butthen when it comes to us, i just want to be clear on exactly whatour role is as a regulator in looking at that joint proposal.>> i'll let mr. agresta respond

to that.>> you have to work today, paul. sorry.>> okay. so, the basic standard ofimproving rates is the same. can you hear me?>> yes. >> the basic standard inapproving rates is the same, whether it's a joint proposal ornot. but when there is a jointproposal, one of the things you would consider is whether therewere competing competing argumes the parties that the settlementthen results in a range of

reasonablethen results in a range of reasonable outcomesthen results in a range of reasonable outcomes ifthen results in a range of reasonable outcomes if thereasonable outcomes if the then results in a range ofreasonable outcomes if the partiesreasonable outcomes if the parties hadreasonable outcomes if the parties had litigatedreasonable outcomes if the parties had litigated andparties had litigated and

reasonable outcomes if theparties had litigated and whetherparties had litigated and whether it'sparties had litigated and whether it's inparties had litigated and whether it's in theparties had litigated and whether it's in the publicwhether it's in the public parties had litigated andwhether it's in the public interest,whether it's in the public interest, butwhether it's in the public

interest, but it'swhether it's in the public interest, but it's aswhether it's in the public interest, but it's as simplewhether it's in the public interest, but it's as simple asinterest, but it's as simple as whether it's in the publicinterest, but it's as simple as that.that. interest, but it's as simple asthat. you'rethat. you're primarilythat.

you're primarily tryingthat. you're primarily trying toyou're primarily trying to that.you're primarily trying to decideyou're primarily trying to decide whetheryou're primarily trying to decide whether theyou're primarily trying to decide whether the ratesyou're primarily trying to decide whether the rates aredecide whether the rates are you're primarily trying todecide whether the rates are

justdecide whether the rates are just anddecide whether the rates are just and reasonable.just and reasonable. decide whether the rates arejust and reasonable. >>just and reasonable. >> sojust and reasonable. >> so justjust and reasonable. >> so just tojust and reasonable. >> so just to bejust and reasonable.

>> so just to be clear,just and reasonable. >> so just to be clear, our>> so just to be clear, our just and reasonable.>> so just to be clear, our judgment>> so just to be clear, our judgment doesn't>> so just to be clear, our judgment doesn't really>> so just to be clear, our judgment doesn't really change.judgment doesn't really change. >> so just to be clear, ourjudgment doesn't really change. wejudgment doesn't really change.

we havejudgment doesn't really change. we have anjudgment doesn't really change. we have an obligationjudgment doesn't really change. we have an obligation tojudgment doesn't really change. we have an obligation to ensurewe have an obligation to ensure judgment doesn't really change.we have an obligation to ensure thatwe have an obligation to ensure that thewe have an obligation to ensure that the rateswe have an obligation to ensure

that the rates arewe have an obligation to ensure that the rates are justwe have an obligation to ensure that the rates are just andthat the rates are just and we have an obligation to ensurethat the rates are just and reasonablethat the rates are just and reasonable whetherthat the rates are just and reasonable whether therethat the rates are just and reasonable whether there isthat the rates are just and reasonable whether there is areasonable whether there is a

that the rates are just andreasonable whether there is a settlementreasonable whether there is a settlement orreasonable whether there is a settlement or not.settlement or not. reasonable whether there is asettlement or not. >>settlement or not. >> hassettlement or not. >> has thissettlement or not. >> has this commissionsettlement or not.

>> has this commission made>> has this commission made settlement or not.>> has this commission made modifications>> has this commission made modifications to>> has this commission made modifications to a>> has this commission made modifications to a jointmodifications to a joint >> has this commission mademodifications to a joint proposalmodifications to a joint proposal aftermodifications to a joint

proposal after it'smodifications to a joint proposal after it's beenproposal after it's been modifications to a jointproposal after it's been presentedproposal after it's been presented onproposal after it's been presented on aproposal after it's been presented on a jointproposal after it's been presented on a joint session?presented on a joint session? proposal after it's beenpresented on a joint session?

>>presented on a joint session? >> yes.>> yes. presented on a joint session?>> yes. this>> yes. this commission?this commission? >> yes.this commission? >> bythis commission? >> by thisthis commission? >> by this commission,this commission?

>> by this commission, ithis commission? >> by this commission, i don't>> by this commission, i don't this commission?>> by this commission, i don't know>> by this commission, i don't know if>> by this commission, i don't know if you're>> by this commission, i don't know if you're talking>> by this commission, i don't know if you're talking aboutknow if you're talking about >> by this commission, i don'tknow if you're talking about

theseknow if you're talking about these fourknow if you're talking about these four peopleknow if you're talking about these four people sittingknow if you're talking about these four people sitting upthese four people sitting up know if you're talking aboutthese four people sitting up here.here. these four people sitting uphere. >>here.

>> ihere. >> i believehere. >> i believe wehere. >> i believe we have.>> i believe we have. here.>> i believe we have. >>>> i believe we have. >> you>> i believe we have. >> you might>> i believe we have. >> you might view>> i believe we have.

>> you might view it>> i believe we have. >> you might view it as>> i believe we have. >> you might view it as one>> you might view it as one >> i believe we have.>> you might view it as one commission,>> you might view it as one commission, and>> you might view it as one commission, and it's>> you might view it as one commission, and it's thecommission, and it's the >> you might view it as onecommission, and it's the

commission.commission. commission, and it's thecommission. >>commission. >> okay.>> okay. so>> okay. so for>> okay. so for me>> okay. so for me that>> okay. so for me that is>> okay.

so for me that is important>> okay. so for me that is important toso for me that is important to >> okay.so for me that is important to makeso for me that is important to make sureso for me that is important to make sure thatso for me that is important to make sure that we'reso for me that is important to make sure that we're allso for me that is important to make sure that we're all onso for me that is important to

make sure that we're all on themake sure that we're all on the so for me that is important tomake sure that we're all on the samemake sure that we're all on the same pagemake sure that we're all on the same page ofmake sure that we're all on the same page of whatmake sure that we're all on the same page of what we'remake sure that we're all on the same page of what we're lookingsame page of what we're looking make sure that we're all on thesame page of what we're looking

at insame page of what we're looking at in termssame page of what we're looking at in terms ofsame page of what we're looking at in terms of thesame page of what we're looking at in terms of the approvalsame page of what we're looking at in terms of the approval ofat in terms of the approval of same page of what we're lookingat in terms of the approval of theat in terms of the approval of the jointat in terms of the approval of

the joint proposalat in terms of the approval of the joint proposal andat in terms of the approval of the joint proposal and ourthe joint proposal and our at in terms of the approval ofthe joint proposal and our objectivethe joint proposal and our objective fromthe joint proposal and our objective from lookingthe joint proposal and our objective from looking atthe joint proposal and our objective from looking at itthe joint proposal and our

objective from looking at it forobjective from looking at it for the joint proposal and ourobjective from looking at it for the ratesobjective from looking at it for the rates thatobjective from looking at it for the rates that areobjective from looking at it for the rates that are justobjective from looking at it for the rates that are just andthe rates that are just and objective from looking at it forthe rates that are just and reasonable.reasonable.

the rates that are just andreasonable. >>reasonable. >> ireasonable. >> i thinkreasonable. >> i think youreasonable. >> i think you mayreasonable. >> i think you may havereasonable. >> i think you may have madereasonable. >> i think you may have made a>> i think you may have made a

reasonable.>> i think you may have made a modification>> i think you may have made a modification to>> i think you may have made a modification to the>> i think you may have made a modification to the case>> i think you may have made a modification to the case at>> i think you may have made a modification to the case at mymodification to the case at my >> i think you may have made amodification to the case at my requestmodification to the case at my

request whenmodification to the case at my request when imodification to the case at my request when i wasmodification to the case at my request when i was atmodification to the case at my request when i was attmodification to the case at my request when i was at aljmodification to the case at my request when i was at alj arequest when i was at alj a modification to the case at myrequest when i was at alj a numberrequest when i was at alj a

number ofrequest when i was at alj a number of yearsrequest when i was at alj a number of years ago.number of years ago. request when i was at alj anumber of years ago. >>number of years ago. >> wenumber of years ago. >> we alsonumber of years ago. >> we also recentlynumber of years ago. >> we also recently madenumber of years ago.

>> we also recently made changes>> we also recently made changes number of years ago.>> we also recently made changes to>> we also recently made changes to joint>> we also recently made changes to joint proposals>> we also recently made changes to joint proposals that>> we also recently made changes to joint proposals that haveto joint proposals that have >> we also recently made changesto joint proposals that have beento joint proposals that have

been into joint proposals that have been in frontto joint proposals that have been in front ofto joint proposals that have been in front of usto joint proposals that have been in front of us ifto joint proposals that have been in front of us if abeen in front of us if a to joint proposals that havebeen in front of us if a particularbeen in front of us if a particular termbeen in front of us if a

particular term wasbeen in front of us if a particular term was somethingparticular term was something been in front of us if aparticular term was something thatparticular term was something that weparticular term was something that we didn'tparticular term was something that we didn't wantparticular term was something that we didn't want toparticular term was something that we didn't want to seeparticular term was something

that we didn't want to see orparticular term was something that we didn't want to see or wethat we didn't want to see or we particular term was somethingthat we didn't want to see or we wantedthat we didn't want to see or we wanted tothat we didn't want to see or we wanted to amend.wanted to amend. that we didn't want to see or wewanted to amend. alsowanted to amend. also withwanted to amend.

also with regardswanted to amend. also with regards towanted to amend. also with regards to usingwanted to amend. also with regards to using levelalso with regards to using level wanted to amend.also with regards to using level situation,also with regards to using level situation, wealso with regards to using level situation, we manyalso with regards to using level situation, we many timesalso with regards to using level

situation, we many times madesituation, we many times made also with regards to using levelsituation, we many times made modificationssituation, we many times made modifications insituation, we many times made modifications in favorsituation, we many times made modifications in favor ofsituation, we many times made modifications in favor of goingmodifications in favor of going situation, we many times mademodifications in favor of going tomodifications in favor of going

to levelizationmodifications in favor of going to levelization whenmodifications in favor of going to levelization when itmodifications in favor of going to levelization when it wasmodifications in favor of going to levelization when it was notto levelization when it was not modifications in favor of goingto levelization when it was not putto levelization when it was not put outto levelization when it was not put out there.put out there.

to levelization when it was notput out there. okay.okay. put out there.okay. sookay. so iokay. so i justokay. so i just wantedokay. so i just wanted tookay. so i just wanted to makeokay.

so i just wanted to make sureokay. so i just wanted to make sure weso i just wanted to make sure we okay.so i just wanted to make sure we wereso i just wanted to make sure we were allso i just wanted to make sure we were all onso i just wanted to make sure we were all on theso i just wanted to make sure we were all on the sameso i just wanted to make sure we were all on the same pageso i just wanted to make sure we

were all on the same page asso i just wanted to make sure we were all on the same page as wewere all on the same page as we so i just wanted to make sure wewere all on the same page as we walkwere all on the same page as we walk throughwere all on the same page as we walk through this.walk through this. were all on the same page as wewalk through this. sowalk through this. so whenwalk through this.

so when iwalk through this. so when i lookwalk through this. so when i look atwalk through this. so when i look at thiswalk through this. so when i look at this iwalk through this. so when i look at this i dowalk through this. so when i look at this i do haveso when i look at this i do have walk through this.so when i look at this i do have a numberso when i look at this i do have

a number ofso when i look at this i do have a number of questionsso when i look at this i do have a number of questions especiallya number of questions especially so when i look at this i do havea number of questions especially becausea number of questions especially because therea number of questions especially because there doesa number of questions especially because there does seema number of questions especially because there does seem toa number of questions especially

because there does seem to bebecause there does seem to be a number of questions especiallybecause there does seem to be somebecause there does seem to be some folksbecause there does seem to be some folks whobecause there does seem to be some folks who havebecause there does seem to be some folks who have differencessome folks who have differences because there does seem to besome folks who have differences ofsome folks who have differences

of opinionsome folks who have differences of opinion insome folks who have differences of opinion in thesome folks who have differences of opinion in the jointsome folks who have differences of opinion in the joint proposalof opinion in the joint proposal some folks who have differencesof opinion in the joint proposal thatof opinion in the joint proposal that haveof opinion in the joint proposal that have beenof opinion in the joint proposal

that have been filedof opinion in the joint proposal that have been filed withof opinion in the joint proposal that have been filed with us.that have been filed with us. of opinion in the joint proposalthat have been filed with us. sothat have been filed with us. so --that have been filed with us. so -- whenthat have been filed with us. so -- when we'rethat have been filed with us. so -- when we're lookingthat have been filed with us.

so -- when we're looking atthat have been filed with us. so -- when we're looking at thisso -- when we're looking at this that have been filed with us.so -- when we're looking at this andso -- when we're looking at this and we'reso -- when we're looking at this and we're lookingso -- when we're looking at this and we're looking atso -- when we're looking at this and we're looking at theand we're looking at the so -- when we're looking at thisand we're looking at the

collaborativand we're looking at the collaborative, there are aboutfour or five collaboratives that are comingfour or five collaboratives that are coming outfour or five collaboratives that are coming out offour or five collaboratives that are coming out of thisfour or five collaboratives that are coming out of this jointare coming out of this joint four or five collaboratives thatare coming out of this joint proposal.proposal.

are coming out of this jointproposal. is thatproposal. is that correct?is that correct? proposal.is that correct? >>is that correct? >> weis that correct? >> we haveis that correct? >> we have --is that correct? >> we have -- ifis that correct?

>> we have -- if youis that correct? >> we have -- if you don'tis that correct? >> we have -- if you don't mind,>> we have -- if you don't mind, is that correct?>> we have -- if you don't mind, i'll>> we have -- if you don't mind, i'll take>> we have -- if you don't mind, i'll take that.i'll take that. >> we have -- if you don't mind,i'll take that. we have ani'll take that.

we have an escoi'll take that. we have an esco collaborative.we have an esco collaborative. i'll take that.we have an esco collaborative. wewe have an esco collaborative. we havewe have an esco collaborative. we have awe have an esco collaborative. we have a powerwe have an esco collaborative. we have a power generationwe have a power generation we have an esco collaborative.we have a power generation

collaborative.collaborative. we have a power generationcollaborative. we have ancollaborative. we have an ittccollaborative. we have an ittc collaborativewe have an ittc collaborative collaborative.we have an ittc collaborative whichwe have an ittc collaborative which standswe have an ittc collaborative which stands forwe have an ittc collaborative

which stands for interruptiblewhich stands for interruptible we have an ittc collaborativewhich stands for interruptible temperaturewhich stands for interruptible temperature controlwhich stands for interruptible temperature control andwhich stands for interruptible temperature control and wewhich stands for interruptible temperature control and we havetemperature control and we have which stands for interruptibletemperature control and we have a stonetemperature control and we have

a stone hardeningtemperature control and we have a stone hardening collaborative.a stone hardening collaborative. temperature control and we havea stone hardening collaborative. >>a stone hardening collaborative. >> soa stone hardening collaborative. >> so toa stone hardening collaborative. >> so to thea stone hardening collaborative. >> so to the extenta stone hardening collaborative. >> so to the extent thata stone hardening collaborative.

>> so to the extent that somea stone hardening collaborative. >> so to the extent that some of>> so to the extent that some of a stone hardening collaborative.>> so to the extent that some of these>> so to the extent that some of these collaboratives>> so to the extent that some of these collaboratives will>> so to the extent that some of these collaboratives will bethese collaboratives will be >> so to the extent that some ofthese collaboratives will be focusedthese collaboratives will be

focused onthese collaboratives will be focused on thesethese collaboratives will be focused on these particularfocused on these particular these collaboratives will befocused on these particular parties,focused on these particular parties, tofocused on these particular parties, to thefocused on these particular parties, to the extentfocused on these particular parties, to the extent thatfocused on these particular

parties, to the extent that itparties, to the extent that it focused on these particularparties, to the extent that it oftenparties, to the extent that it often dovetailsparties, to the extent that it often dovetails intoparties, to the extent that it often dovetails into theparties, to the extent that it often dovetails into the genericoften dovetails into the generic parties, to the extent that itoften dovetails into the generic proceedings,often dovetails into the generic

proceedings, howoften dovetails into the generic proceedings, how doesoften dovetails into the generic proceedings, how does thatoften dovetails into the generic proceedings, how does that work?proceedings, how does that work? often dovetails into the genericproceedings, how does that work? forproceedings, how does that work? for example,proceedings, how does that work? for example, theproceedings, how does that work? for example, the storm-hardeningfor example, the storm-hardening

proceedings, how does that work?for example, the storm-hardening collaborative,for example, the storm-hardening collaborative, we'vefor example, the storm-hardening collaborative, we've beencollaborative, we've been for example, the storm-hardeningcollaborative, we've been lookingcollaborative, we've been looking atcollaborative, we've been looking at thatcollaborative, we've been looking at that genericallycollaborative, we've been

looking at that generically inlooking at that generically in collaborative, we've beenlooking at that generically in stormlooking at that generically in storm hardeninglooking at that generically in storm hardening andlooking at that generically in storm hardening and nowlooking at that generically in storm hardening and now therelooking at that generically in storm hardening and now there isstorm hardening and now there is looking at that generically instorm hardening and now there is

a separatestorm hardening and now there is a separate collaborativestorm hardening and now there is a separate collaborative andstorm hardening and now there is a separate collaborative and ia separate collaborative and i storm hardening and now there isa separate collaborative and i knowa separate collaborative and i know itsa separate collaborative and i know its hada separate collaborative and i know its had itsa separate collaborative and i

know its had its collaborativeknow its had its collaborative a separate collaborative and iknow its had its collaborative and theknow its had its collaborative and the utilitiesknow its had its collaborative and the utilities wereknow its had its collaborative and the utilities were lookingand the utilities were looking know its had its collaborativeand the utilities were looking at aand the utilities were looking at a collaborative.at a collaborative.

and the utilities were lookingat a collaborative. >>at a collaborative. >> iat a collaborative. >> i guessat a collaborative. >> i guess fromat a collaborative. >> i guess from myat a collaborative. >> i guess from my perspective,>> i guess from my perspective, at a collaborative.>> i guess from my perspective, you>> i guess from my perspective,

you know,>> i guess from my perspective, you know, to>> i guess from my perspective, you know, to the>> i guess from my perspective, you know, to the extentyou know, to the extent >> i guess from my perspective,you know, to the extent somethingyou know, to the extent something isyou know, to the extent something is potentiallyyou know, to the extent something is potentially goingsomething is potentially going

you know, to the extentsomething is potentially going to costsomething is potentially going to cost thesomething is potentially going to cost the utilitysomething is potentially going to cost the utility money,something is potentially going to cost the utility money, youto cost the utility money, you something is potentially goingto cost the utility money, you haveto cost the utility money, you have toto cost the utility money, you

have to lookto cost the utility money, you have to look atto cost the utility money, you have to look at itto cost the utility money, you have to look at it into cost the utility money, you have to look at it in termsto cost the utility money, you have to look at it in terms ofhave to look at it in terms of to cost the utility money, youhave to look at it in terms of theirhave to look at it in terms of their individualhave to look at it in terms of

their individual ratehave to look at it in terms of their individual rate casehave to look at it in terms of their individual rate case wheretheir individual rate case where have to look at it in terms oftheir individual rate case where thetheir individual rate case where the generictheir individual rate case where the generic casetheir individual rate case where the generic case wouldtheir individual rate case where the generic case would betheir individual rate case where

the generic case would be morethe generic case would be more their individual rate case wherethe generic case would be more focusedthe generic case would be more focused onthe generic case would be more focused on athe generic case would be more focused on a statewidethe generic case would be more focused on a statewide policy,focused on a statewide policy, the generic case would be morefocused on a statewide policy, right?right?

focused on a statewide policy,right? theright? the pointright? the point hereright? the point here isright? the point here is whatright? the point here is what it'sthe point here is what it's right?the point here is what it's goingthe point here is what it's

going tothe point here is what it's going to costthe point here is what it's going to cost thisthe point here is what it's going to cost this particulargoing to cost this particular the point here is what it'sgoing to cost this particular utility.utility. going to cost this particularutility. >>utility. utility.>> okay.

so to>> okay. so to the>> okay. so to the extent>> okay. so to the extent that>> okay. so to the extent that some>> okay. so to the extent that some ofso to the extent that some of >> okay.so to the extent that some of theseso to the extent that some of these collaborativesso to the extent that some of

these collaboratives mayso to the extent that some of these collaboratives may overlapthese collaboratives may overlap so to the extent that some ofthese collaboratives may overlap withthese collaboratives may overlap with somethese collaboratives may overlap with some ofthese collaboratives may overlap with some of ourthese collaboratives may overlap with some of our statewidewith some of our statewide these collaboratives may overlapwith some of our statewide

initiatives,with some of our statewide initiatives, iwith some of our statewide initiatives, i thinkwith some of our statewide initiatives, i think it'sinitiatives, i think it's with some of our statewideinitiatives, i think it's importantinitiatives, i think it's important thatinitiatives, i think it's important that theinitiatives, i think it's important that the folksinitiatives, i think it's

important that the folks thatimportant that the folks that initiatives, i think it'simportant that the folks that areimportant that the folks that are lookingimportant that the folks that are looking atimportant that the folks that are looking at theimportant that the folks that are looking at the collaborativeare looking at the collaborative important that the folks thatare looking at the collaborative andare looking at the collaborative

and workingare looking at the collaborative and working onare looking at the collaborative and working on itare looking at the collaborative and working on it haveare looking at the collaborative and working on it have aare looking at the collaborative and working on it have a fulland working on it have a full are looking at the collaborativeand working on it have a full understandingand working on it have a full understanding ofand working on it have a full

understanding of whatand working on it have a full understanding of what isand working on it have a full understanding of what is ongoingunderstanding of what is ongoing and working on it have a fullunderstanding of what is ongoing or aboutunderstanding of what is ongoing or about tounderstanding of what is ongoing or about to beunderstanding of what is ongoing or about to be ongoingunderstanding of what is ongoing or about to be ongoing andunderstanding of what is ongoing

or about to be ongoing and soor about to be ongoing and so understanding of what is ongoingor about to be ongoing and so thator about to be ongoing and so that weor about to be ongoing and so that we makeor about to be ongoing and so that we make sureor about to be ongoing and so that we make sure thator about to be ongoing and so that we make sure that thereor about to be ongoing and so that we make sure that there isthat we make sure that there is

or about to be ongoing and sothat we make sure that there is nothat we make sure that there is no disconnectthat we make sure that there is no disconnect andthat we make sure that there is no disconnect and factorthat we make sure that there is no disconnect and factor thatno disconnect and factor that that we make sure that there isno disconnect and factor that in.in. no disconnect and factor thatin.

soin. so that'sin. so that's thein. so that's the first.so that's the first. in.so that's the first. theso that's the first. the otherso that's the first. the other issueso that's the first. the other issue isso that's the first.

the other issue is i'mso that's the first. the other issue is i'm tryingso that's the first. the other issue is i'm trying tothe other issue is i'm trying to so that's the first.the other issue is i'm trying to understandthe other issue is i'm trying to understand thethe other issue is i'm trying to understand the demosthe other issue is i'm trying to understand the demos herethe other issue is i'm trying to understand the demos here andunderstand the demos here and

the other issue is i'm trying tounderstand the demos here and the terminologyunderstand the demos here and the terminology ofunderstand the demos here and the terminology of revunderstand the demos here and the terminology of rev demos.the terminology of rev demos. understand the demos here andthe terminology of rev demos. therethe terminology of rev demos. there isthe terminology of rev demos. there is --the terminology of rev demos.

there is -- ithe terminology of rev demos. there is -- i thinkthe terminology of rev demos. there is -- i think thatthe terminology of rev demos. there is -- i think that we'vethere is -- i think that we've the terminology of rev demos.there is -- i think that we've onlythere is -- i think that we've only approvedthere is -- i think that we've only approved onethere is -- i think that we've only approved one revthere is -- i think that we've

only approved one rev demothere is -- i think that we've only approved one rev demo inthere is -- i think that we've only approved one rev demo in aonly approved one rev demo in a there is -- i think that we'veonly approved one rev demo in a rateonly approved one rev demo in a rate caseonly approved one rev demo in a rate case beforeonly approved one rev demo in a rate case before whichonly approved one rev demo in a rate case before which isonly approved one rev demo in a

rate case before which is therate case before which is the only approved one rev demo in arate case before which is the centralrate case before which is the central hudsonrate case before which is the central hudson revrate case before which is the central hudson rev demo,rate case before which is the central hudson rev demo, andrate case before which is the central hudson rev demo, and socentral hudson rev demo, and so rate case before which is thecentral hudson rev demo, and so

here,central hudson rev demo, and so here, thiscentral hudson rev demo, and so here, this iscentral hudson rev demo, and so here, this is thecentral hudson rev demo, and so here, this is the first.here, this is the first. central hudson rev demo, and sohere, this is the first. actually,here, this is the first. actually, it'shere, this is the first. actually, it's thehere, this is the first.

actually, it's the firsthere, this is the first. actually, it's the first foractually, it's the first for here, this is the first.actually, it's the first for threeactually, it's the first for three revactually, it's the first for three rev demosactually, it's the first for three rev demos andactually, it's the first for three rev demos and it'sactually, it's the first for three rev demos and it's thethree rev demos and it's the

actually, it's the first forthree rev demos and it's the first for approvingthree rev demos and it's the first for approving naturalthree rev demos and it's the first for approving natural revfirst for approving natural rev three rev demos and it's thefirst for approving natural rev demos and therefirst for approving natural rev demos and there isfirst for approving natural rev demos and there is afirst for approving natural rev demos and there is a recognitiondemos and there is a recognition

first for approving natural revdemos and there is a recognition goingdemos and there is a recognition going backdemos and there is a recognition going back todemos and there is a recognition going back to thedemos and there is a recognition going back to the revdemos and there is a recognition going back to the rev objectivesgoing back to the rev objectives demos and there is a recognitiongoing back to the rev objectives whichgoing back to the rev objectives

which weregoing back to the rev objectives which were fivegoing back to the rev objectives which were five andgoing back to the rev objectives which were five and thengoing back to the rev objectives which were five and then becamewhich were five and then became going back to the rev objectiveswhich were five and then became sixwhich were five and then became six andwhich were five and then became six and onewhich were five and then became

six and one ofwhich were five and then became six and one of thewhich were five and then became six and one of the revsix and one of the rev which were five and then becamesix and one of the rev objectivessix and one of the rev objectives insix and one of the rev objectives in thesix and one of the rev objectives in the originalsix and one of the rev objectives in the original five,objectives in the original five,

six and one of the revobjectives in the original five, i thinkobjectives in the original five, i think itobjectives in the original five, i think it wasobjectives in the original five, i think it was numberobjectives in the original five, i think it was number threeobjectives in the original five, i think it was number three wasi think it was number three was objectives in the original five,i think it was number three was diversity.diversity.

i think it was number three wasdiversity. sodiversity. so todiversity. so to thediversity. so to the extentdiversity. so to the extent thatdiversity. so to the extent that nowdiversity. so to the extent that now thereso to the extent that now there diversity.so to the extent that now there

isso to the extent that now there is aso to the extent that now there is a recognitionso to the extent that now there is a recognition thatso to the extent that now there is a recognition that naturalis a recognition that natural so to the extent that now thereis a recognition that natural gasis a recognition that natural gas isis a recognition that natural gas is anis a recognition that natural

gas is an interconnectionis a recognition that natural gas is an interconnection inis a recognition that natural gas is an interconnection in revgas is an interconnection in rev is a recognition that naturalgas is an interconnection in rev demos,gas is an interconnection in rev demos, igas is an interconnection in rev demos, i thinkgas is an interconnection in rev demos, i think it'sgas is an interconnection in rev demos, i think it's importantgas is an interconnection in rev

demos, i think it's important todemos, i think it's important to gas is an interconnection in revdemos, i think it's important to pointdemos, i think it's important to point thatdemos, i think it's important to point that outdemos, i think it's important to point that out fromdemos, i think it's important to point that out from thepoint that out from the demos, i think it's important topoint that out from the perspectivepoint that out from the

perspective ofpoint that out from the perspective of fuelpoint that out from the perspective of fuel diversityperspective of fuel diversity point that out from theperspective of fuel diversity andperspective of fuel diversity and goingperspective of fuel diversity and going backperspective of fuel diversity and going back toperspective of fuel diversity and going back to theperspective of fuel diversity

and going back to the tenets,and going back to the tenets, perspective of fuel diversityand going back to the tenets, andand going back to the tenets, and theand going back to the tenets, and the basicand going back to the tenets, and the basic tenetsand going back to the tenets, and the basic tenets ofand going back to the tenets, and the basic tenets of theand going back to the tenets, and the basic tenets of the revand the basic tenets of the rev

and going back to the tenets,and the basic tenets of the rev objectivesand the basic tenets of the rev objectives fromand the basic tenets of the rev objectives from theand the basic tenets of the rev objectives from the getand the basic tenets of the rev objectives from the get goand the basic tenets of the rev objectives from the get go thatobjectives from the get go that and the basic tenets of the revobjectives from the get go that provideobjectives from the get go that

provide forobjectives from the get go that provide for thatobjectives from the get go that provide for that connection,objectives from the get go that provide for that connection, butprovide for that connection, but objectives from the get go thatprovide for that connection, but toprovide for that connection, but to theprovide for that connection, but to the extentprovide for that connection, but to the extent thatprovide for that connection, but

to the extent that theseprovide for that connection, but to the extent that these revto the extent that these rev provide for that connection, butto the extent that these rev demosto the extent that these rev demos andto the extent that these rev demos and theto the extent that these rev demos and the process,to the extent that these rev demos and the process, willto the extent that these rev demos and the process, will theydemos and the process, will they

to the extent that these revdemos and the process, will they bedemos and the process, will they be followingdemos and the process, will they be following thedemos and the process, will they be following the samedemos and the process, will they be following the same processbe following the same process demos and the process, will theybe following the same process thatbe following the same process that thebe following the same process

that the revbe following the same process that the rev demosbe following the same process that the rev demos followbe following the same process that the rev demos follow now,that the rev demos follow now, be following the same processthat the rev demos follow now, sortthat the rev demos follow now, sort ofthat the rev demos follow now, sort of outsidethat the rev demos follow now, sort of outside thethat the rev demos follow now,

sort of outside the commissionsort of outside the commission that the rev demos follow now,sort of outside the commission withsort of outside the commission with thesort of outside the commission with the implementationsort of outside the commission with the implementation andsort of outside the commission with the implementation and thewith the implementation and the sort of outside the commissionwith the implementation and the approvalwith the implementation and the

approval processwith the implementation and the approval process andwith the implementation and the approval process and awith the implementation and the approval process and a workapproval process and a work with the implementation and theapproval process and a work plan?plan? approval process and a workplan? >>plan? >> so,plan?

>> so, asplan? >> so, as youplan? >> so, as you know,plan? >> so, as you know, whileplan? >> so, as you know, while the>> so, as you know, while the plan?>> so, as you know, while the rev>> so, as you know, while the rev is>> so, as you know, while the rev is largely>> so, as you know, while the

rev is largely focused>> so, as you know, while the rev is largely focused on>> so, as you know, while the rev is largely focused on therev is largely focused on the >> so, as you know, while therev is largely focused on the electricrev is largely focused on the electric industryrev is largely focused on the electric industry andrev is largely focused on the electric industry and we'reelectric industry and we're rev is largely focused on theelectric industry and we're

tryingelectric industry and we're trying toelectric industry and we're trying to takeelectric industry and we're trying to take someelectric industry and we're trying to take some ofelectric industry and we're trying to take some of thetrying to take some of the electric industry and we'retrying to take some of the lessonstrying to take some of the lessons learnedtrying to take some of the

lessons learned andtrying to take some of the lessons learned and applytrying to take some of the lessons learned and apply themlessons learned and apply them trying to take some of thelessons learned and apply them to thelessons learned and apply them to the gaslessons learned and apply them to the gas industry,lessons learned and apply them to the gas industry, thislessons learned and apply them to the gas industry, this islessons learned and apply them

to the gas industry, this is anto the gas industry, this is an lessons learned and apply themto the gas industry, this is an opportunityto the gas industry, this is an opportunity thatto the gas industry, this is an opportunity that weto the gas industry, this is an opportunity that we tookto the gas industry, this is an opportunity that we took becauseopportunity that we took because to the gas industry, this is anopportunity that we took because the twoopportunity that we took because

the two rateopportunity that we took because the two rate casesopportunity that we took because the two rate cases wereopportunity that we took because the two rate cases were inopportunity that we took because the two rate cases were in frontthe two rate cases were in front opportunity that we took becausethe two rate cases were in front ofthe two rate cases were in front of usthe two rate cases were in front of us tothe two rate cases were in front

of us to trythe two rate cases were in front of us to try tothe two rate cases were in front of us to try to havethe two rate cases were in front of us to try to have someof us to try to have some the two rate cases were in frontof us to try to have some projectsof us to try to have some projects toof us to try to have some projects to learnof us to try to have some projects to learn fromof us to try to have some

projects to learn from thatof us to try to have some projects to learn from that revprojects to learn from that rev of us to try to have someprojects to learn from that rev stuffprojects to learn from that rev stuff that'sprojects to learn from that rev stuff that's goingprojects to learn from that rev stuff that's going onprojects to learn from that rev stuff that's going on onprojects to learn from that rev stuff that's going on on theprojects to learn from that rev

stuff that's going on on the gasstuff that's going on on the gas projects to learn from that revstuff that's going on on the gas sidestuff that's going on on the gas side ofstuff that's going on on the gas side of thestuff that's going on on the gas side of the business.side of the business. stuff that's going on on the gasside of the business. thereside of the business. there wereside of the business.

there were specificside of the business. there were specific projectsside of the business. there were specific projects inthere were specific projects in side of the business.there were specific projects in thisthere were specific projects in this casethere were specific projects in this case thatthere were specific projects in this case that thethere were specific projects in this case that the companythere were specific projects in

this case that the company putthis case that the company put there were specific projects inthis case that the company put forwardthis case that the company put forward andthis case that the company put forward and thethis case that the company put forward and the fundingthis case that the company put forward and the funding forforward and the funding for this case that the company putforward and the funding for thoseforward and the funding for

those wasforward and the funding for those was embeddedforward and the funding for those was embedded intoforward and the funding for those was embedded into thethose was embedded into the forward and the funding forthose was embedded into the ratesthose was embedded into the rates thatthose was embedded into the rates that we'rethose was embedded into the rates that we're settingthose was embedded into the

rates that we're setting today.rates that we're setting today. those was embedded into therates that we're setting today. it'srates that we're setting today. it's arates that we're setting today. it's a littlerates that we're setting today. it's a little differentrates that we're setting today. it's a little different processit's a little different process rates that we're setting today.it's a little different process thanit's a little different process

than whatit's a little different process than what we'reit's a little different process than what we're usingit's a little different process than what we're using withit's a little different process than what we're using with thethan what we're using with the it's a little different processthan what we're using with the electricthan what we're using with the electric revthan what we're using with the electric rev demos.electric rev demos.

than what we're using with theelectric rev demos. >>electric rev demos. electric rev demos.>> okay. i'm>> okay. i'm just>> okay. i'm just looking>> okay. i'm just looking for>> okay. i'm just looking for clarity>> okay. i'm just looking for clarity andi'm just looking for clarity and

>> okay.i'm just looking for clarity and justi'm just looking for clarity and just ini'm just looking for clarity and just in makingi'm just looking for clarity and just in making surei'm just looking for clarity and just in making sure thati'm just looking for clarity and just in making sure that thejust in making sure that the i'm just looking for clarity andjust in making sure that the terminologyjust in making sure that the

terminology thenjust in making sure that the terminology then ofjust in making sure that the terminology then of thejust in making sure that the terminology then of the revterminology then of the rev just in making sure that theterminology then of the rev demosterminology then of the rev demos don'tterminology then of the rev demos don't fitterminology then of the rev demos don't fit theterminology then of the rev

demos don't fit the sameterminology then of the rev demos don't fit the same asterminology then of the rev demos don't fit the same as thedemos don't fit the same as the terminology then of the revdemos don't fit the same as the onesdemos don't fit the same as the ones thatdemos don't fit the same as the ones that aredemos don't fit the same as the ones that are ongoingdemos don't fit the same as the ones that are ongoing nowones that are ongoing now

demos don't fit the same as theones that are ongoing now throughones that are ongoing now through thatones that are ongoing now through that process,ones that are ongoing now through that process, isones that are ongoing now through that process, is thatthrough that process, is that ones that are ongoing nowthrough that process, is that correct?correct? through that process, is thatcorrect?

>>correct? >> that'scorrect? >> that's correct.>> that's correct. slightly>> that's correct. slightly different>> that's correct. slightly different process.slightly different process. >> that's correct.slightly different process. slightly different process.>> okay. all>> okay.

all right.all right. >> okay.all right. thankall right. thank you.thank you. all right.thank you. >>thank you. >> andthank you. >> and thenthank you. >> and then asthank you.

>> and then as tothank you. >> and then as to thethank you. >> and then as to the geothermal>> and then as to the geothermal thank you.>> and then as to the geothermal pilot>> and then as to the geothermal pilot project,>> and then as to the geothermal pilot project, i>> and then as to the geothermal pilot project, i am>> and then as to the geothermal pilot project, i am trying>> and then as to the geothermal

pilot project, i am trying topilot project, i am trying to >> and then as to the geothermalpilot project, i am trying to figurepilot project, i am trying to figure outpilot project, i am trying to figure out becausepilot project, i am trying to figure out because thepilot project, i am trying to figure out because the languagefigure out because the language pilot project, i am trying tofigure out because the language in thefigure out because the language

in the orderfigure out because the language in the order talksfigure out because the language in the order talks aboutfigure out because the language in the order talks about doingin the order talks about doing figure out because the languagein the order talks about doing thisin the order talks about doing this asin the order talks about doing this as anin the order talks about doing this as an alternativein the order talks about doing

this as an alternative tothis as an alternative to in the order talks about doingthis as an alternative to naturalthis as an alternative to natural gasthis as an alternative to natural gas andthis as an alternative to natural gas and workingthis as an alternative to natural gas and working withthis as an alternative to natural gas and working with anatural gas and working with a this as an alternative tonatural gas and working with a

waternatural gas and working with a water companynatural gas and working with a water company andnatural gas and working with a water company and lipanatural gas and working with a water company and lipa andnatural gas and working with a water company and lipa and psewater company and lipa and pse natural gas and working with awater company and lipa and pse and gwater company and lipa and pse and g onwater company and lipa and pse

and g on longwater company and lipa and pse and g on long island.and g on long island. water company and lipa and pseand g on long island. soand g on long island. so toand g on long island. so to theand g on long island. so to the extentand g on long island. so to the extent thatand g on long island. so to the extent that i'mand g on long island.

so to the extent that i'm tryingso to the extent that i'm trying and g on long island.so to the extent that i'm trying toso to the extent that i'm trying to understandso to the extent that i'm trying to understand isso to the extent that i'm trying to understand is thatso to the extent that i'm trying to understand is that alreadyso to the extent that i'm trying to understand is that already into understand is that already in so to the extent that i'm tryingto understand is that already in

placeto understand is that already in place orto understand is that already in place or areto understand is that already in place or are theyto understand is that already in place or are they goingto understand is that already in place or are they going toto understand is that already in place or are they going to beplace or are they going to be to understand is that already inplace or are they going to be doingplace or are they going to be

doing outreachplace or are they going to be doing outreach thereplace or are they going to be doing outreach there andplace or are they going to be doing outreach there and howdoing outreach there and how place or are they going to bedoing outreach there and how doesdoing outreach there and how does thatdoing outreach there and how does that affectdoing outreach there and how does that affect usdoing outreach there and how

does that affect us indoing outreach there and how does that affect us in termsdoing outreach there and how does that affect us in terms ofdoes that affect us in terms of doing outreach there and howdoes that affect us in terms of ourdoes that affect us in terms of our eversightdoes that affect us in terms of our eversight ifdoes that affect us in terms of our eversight if itdoes that affect us in terms of our eversight if it involvesour eversight if it involves

does that affect us in terms ofour eversight if it involves lipaour eversight if it involves lipa andour eversight if it involves lipa and pse&gour eversight if it involves lipa and pse&g andour eversight if it involves lipa and pse&g and alsoour eversight if it involves lipa and pse&g and also onour eversight if it involves lipa and pse&g and also on thelipa and pse&g and also on the our eversight if it involveslipa and pse&g and also on the

pendinglipa and pse&g and also on the pending ratelipa and pse&g and also on the pending rate caselipa and pse&g and also on the pending rate case forlipa and pse&g and also on the pending rate case for atlipa and pse&g and also on the pending rate case for at leastpending rate case for at least lipa and pse&g and also on thepending rate case for at least onepending rate case for at least one waterpending rate case for at least

one water company?pending rate case for at least one water company?oversightpending rate case for at least one water company?oversight ifone water company?oversight if pending rate case for at leastone water company?oversight if lipaone water company?oversight if lipa andone water company?oversight if lipa and pse&gone water company?oversight if lipa and pse&g andone water company?oversight if lipa and pse&g and alsoone water company?oversight if

lipa and pse&g and also onone water company?oversight if one water company?oversight iflipa and pse&g and also on the one water company?one water company? pending rate case for at leastone water company? >>one water company? >> ione water company? >> i thinkone water company? >> i think theone water company? >> i think the --one water company?

>> i think the -- ione water company? >> i think the -- i shouldn't>> i think the -- i shouldn't one water company?>> i think the -- i shouldn't say>> i think the -- i shouldn't say i>> i think the -- i shouldn't say i think,>> i think the -- i shouldn't say i think, i>> i think the -- i shouldn't say i think, i know,>> i think the -- i shouldn't say i think, i know, the>> i think the -- i shouldn't

say i think, i know, the intentsay i think, i know, the intent >> i think the -- i shouldn'tsay i think, i know, the intent andsay i think, i know, the intent and thesay i think, i know, the intent and the discussionsay i think, i know, the intent and the discussion aroundsay i think, i know, the intent and the discussion around thisand the discussion around this say i think, i know, the intentand the discussion around this wasand the discussion around this

was toand the discussion around this was to theand the discussion around this was to the extentand the discussion around this was to the extent youand the discussion around this was to the extent you couldand the discussion around this was to the extent you could getwas to the extent you could get and the discussion around thiswas to the extent you could get somebodywas to the extent you could get somebody towas to the extent you could get

somebody to usewas to the extent you could get somebody to use geothermalsomebody to use geothermal was to the extent you could getsomebody to use geothermal energysomebody to use geothermal energy tosomebody to use geothermal energy to heatsomebody to use geothermal energy to heat theirsomebody to use geothermal energy to heat their home,somebody to use geothermal energy to heat their home, youenergy to heat their home, you

somebody to use geothermalenergy to heat their home, you couldenergy to heat their home, you could avoidenergy to heat their home, you could avoid investmentenergy to heat their home, you could avoid investment incould avoid investment in energy to heat their home, youcould avoid investment in additionalcould avoid investment in additional naturalcould avoid investment in additional natural gasadditional natural gas

could avoid investment inadditional natural gas infrastructure.infrastructure. additional natural gasinfrastructure. soinfrastructure. so thatinfrastructure. so that couldinfrastructure. so that could potentiallyinfrastructure. so that could potentially beinfrastructure. so that could potentially be aso that could potentially be a

infrastructure.so that could potentially be a savingsso that could potentially be a savings toso that could potentially be a savings to allso that could potentially be a savings to all ofso that could potentially be a savings to all of theso that could potentially be a savings to all of the gasso that could potentially be a savings to all of the gas ratesavings to all of the gas rate so that could potentially be asavings to all of the gas rate

payerssavings to all of the gas rate payers ifsavings to all of the gas rate payers if you'vesavings to all of the gas rate payers if you've avoidedsavings to all of the gas rate payers if you've avoided andpayers if you've avoided and savings to all of the gas ratepayers if you've avoided and it'spayers if you've avoided and it's verypayers if you've avoided and it's very similarpayers if you've avoided and

it's very similar to,payers if you've avoided and it's very similar to, youpayers if you've avoided and it's very similar to, you know,it's very similar to, you know, payers if you've avoided andit's very similar to, you know, theit's very similar to, you know, the sameit's very similar to, you know, the same issuesit's very similar to, you know, the same issues onit's very similar to, you know, the same issues on theit's very similar to, you know,

the same issues on the electricthe same issues on the electric it's very similar to, you know,the same issues on the electric side,the same issues on the electric side, ifthe same issues on the electric side, if youthe same issues on the electric side, if you canthe same issues on the electric side, if you can avoidthe same issues on the electric side, if you can avoid thatside, if you can avoid that the same issues on the electricside, if you can avoid that

investmentside, if you can avoid that investment thenside, if you can avoid that investment then everybodyside, if you can avoid that investment then everybody savesinvestment then everybody saves side, if you can avoid thatinvestment then everybody saves a littleinvestment then everybody saves a little bitinvestment then everybody saves a little bit ofinvestment then everybody saves a little bit of money.a little bit of money.

investment then everybody savesa little bit of money. soa little bit of money. so that'sa little bit of money. so that's thea little bit of money. so that's the intentiona little bit of money. so that's the intention hereso that's the intention here a little bit of money.so that's the intention here withso that's the intention here with callingso that's the intention here

with calling itso that's the intention here with calling it aso that's the intention here with calling it a demo.with calling it a demo. so that's the intention herewith calling it a demo. the companywith calling it a demo. the company iswith calling it a demo. the company is goingwith calling it a demo. the company is going towith calling it a demo. the company is going to bethe company is going to be

with calling it a demo.the company is going to be lookingthe company is going to be looking atthe company is going to be looking at itthe company is going to be looking at it andthe company is going to be looking at it and studyingthe company is going to be looking at it and studying it.looking at it and studying it. the company is going to belooking at it and studying it. there'slooking at it and studying it.

there's nothinglooking at it and studying it. there's nothing that'slooking at it and studying it. there's nothing that's beenthere's nothing that's been looking at it and studying it.there's nothing that's been decidedthere's nothing that's been decided orthere's nothing that's been decided or even,there's nothing that's been decided or even,xnjâ– there's nothing that's been decided or even,xnjâ–  youthere's nothing that's been

decided or even,xnjâ–  you know,decided or even,xnjâ–  you know, there's nothing that's beendecided or even,xnjâ–  you know, don'tdecided or even,xnjâ–  you know, don't thinkdecided or even,xnjâ–  you know, don't think anyonedecided or even,xnjâ–  you know, don't think anyone hasdecided or even,xnjâ–  you know, don't think anyone has haddon't think anyone has had decided or even,xnjâ–  you know,don't think anyone has had strongdon't think anyone has had

strong opinionsdon't think anyone has had strong opinions expresseddon't think anyone has had strong opinions expressed yetstrong opinions expressed yet don't think anyone has hadstrong opinions expressed yet aboutstrong opinions expressed yet about whatstrong opinions expressed yet about what that'sstrong opinions expressed yet about what that's goingstrong opinions expressed yet about what that's going tostrong opinions expressed yet

about what that's going to lookabout what that's going to look strong opinions expressed yetabout what that's going to look like.like. about what that's going to looklike. thelike. the waterlike. the water companylike. the water company waslike. the water company was mentionedthe water company was mentioned

like.the water company was mentioned becausethe water company was mentioned because therethe water company was mentioned because there isthe water company was mentioned because there is athe water company was mentioned because there is a projectbecause there is a project the water company was mentionedbecause there is a project that'sbecause there is a project that's beingbecause there is a project

that's being done.that's being done. because there is a projectthat's being done. asthat's being done. as youthat's being done. as you know,that's being done. as you know, withthat's being done. as you know, with thethat's being done. as you know, with the schoolthat's being done. as you know, with the school onas you know, with the school on

that's being done.as you know, with the school on longas you know, with the school on long islandas you know, with the school on long island whereas you know, with the school on long island where itas you know, with the school on long island where it couldlong island where it could as you know, with the school onlong island where it could potentiallylong island where it could potentially belong island where it could

potentially be costlong island where it could potentially be cost savings.potentially be cost savings. long island where it couldpotentially be cost savings. sopotentially be cost savings. so topotentially be cost savings. so to thepotentially be cost savings. so to the extentpotentially be cost savings. so to the extent therepotentially be cost savings. so to the extent there ispotentially be cost savings.

so to the extent there is aso to the extent there is a potentially be cost savings.so to the extent there is a win-win-winso to the extent there is a win-win-win soso to the extent there is a win-win-win so thatso to the extent there is a win-win-win so that theso to the extent there is a win-win-win so that the schoolwin-win-win so that the school so to the extent there is awin-win-win so that the school districtwin-win-win so that the school

district canwin-win-win so that the school district can bewin-win-win so that the school district can be geothermalwin-win-win so that the school district can be geothermal anddistrict can be geothermal and win-win-win so that the schooldistrict can be geothermal and theydistrict can be geothermal and they savedistrict can be geothermal and they save ondistrict can be geothermal and they save on thedistrict can be geothermal and

they save on the fueldistrict can be geothermal and they save on the fuel costsdistrict can be geothermal and they save on the fuel costs andthey save on the fuel costs and district can be geothermal andthey save on the fuel costs and itthey save on the fuel costs and it alsothey save on the fuel costs and it also eliminatesthey save on the fuel costs and it also eliminates thethey save on the fuel costs and it also eliminates the needthey save on the fuel costs and

it also eliminates the need toit also eliminates the need to they save on the fuel costs andit also eliminates the need to secureit also eliminates the need to secure additionalit also eliminates the need to secure additional pipelinesecure additional pipeline it also eliminates the need tosecure additional pipeline capacitysecure additional pipeline capacity forsecure additional pipeline capacity for thesecure additional pipeline

capacity for the utilitysecure additional pipeline capacity for the utility thensecure additional pipeline capacity for the utility then itcapacity for the utility then it secure additional pipelinecapacity for the utility then it couldcapacity for the utility then it could becapacity for the utility then it could be verycapacity for the utility then it could be very beneficialcapacity for the utility then it could be very beneficial forcould be very beneficial for

capacity for the utility then itcould be very beneficial for everybody.everybody. could be very beneficial foreverybody. >>everybody. >> andeverybody. >> and iseverybody. >> and is thateverybody. >> and is that aeverybody. >> and is that a concern?>> and is that a concern?

everybody.>> and is that a concern? in>> and is that a concern? in terms>> and is that a concern? in terms of>> and is that a concern? in terms of looking>> and is that a concern? in terms of looking at>> and is that a concern? in terms of looking at it>> and is that a concern? in terms of looking at it thein terms of looking at it the >> and is that a concern?in terms of looking at it the

fromin terms of looking at it the from thein terms of looking at it the from the somein terms of looking at it the from the some ofin terms of looking at it the from the some of thein terms of looking at it the from the some of the dynamicin terms of looking at it the from the some of the dynamic wasfrom the some of the dynamic was in terms of looking at it thefrom the some of the dynamic was thatfrom the some of the dynamic was

that --from the some of the dynamic was that -- lookingfrom the some of the dynamic was that -- looking atfrom the some of the dynamic was that -- looking at reducingfrom the some of the dynamic was that -- looking at reducing thethat -- looking at reducing the from the some of the dynamic wasthat -- looking at reducing the pipelinethat -- looking at reducing the pipeline capacity,that -- looking at reducing the pipeline capacity, thethat -- looking at reducing the

pipeline capacity, the needthat -- looking at reducing the pipeline capacity, the need forpipeline capacity, the need for that -- looking at reducing thepipeline capacity, the need for the infrastructurepipeline capacity, the need for the infrastructure forpipeline capacity, the need for the infrastructure for that?the infrastructure for that? pipeline capacity, the need forthe infrastructure for that? i'mthe infrastructure for that? i'm justthe infrastructure for that?

i'm just tryingthe infrastructure for that? i'm just trying tothe infrastructure for that? i'm just trying to understand.i'm just trying to understand. the infrastructure for that?i'm just trying to understand. >>i'm just trying to understand. >> i'lli'm just trying to understand. >> i'll telli'm just trying to understand. >> i'll tell youi'm just trying to understand. >> i'll tell you i'mi'm just trying to understand.

>> i'll tell you i'm enthused>> i'll tell you i'm enthused i'm just trying to understand.>> i'll tell you i'm enthused about>> i'll tell you i'm enthused about it.about it. >> i'll tell you i'm enthusedabout it. i thinkabout it. i think thatabout it. i think that geothermalabout it. i think that geothermal hasabout it.

i think that geothermal has ai think that geothermal has a about it.i think that geothermal has a hugei think that geothermal has a huge amounti think that geothermal has a huge amount ofi think that geothermal has a huge amount of promisei think that geothermal has a huge amount of promise fori think that geothermal has a huge amount of promise for thehuge amount of promise for the i think that geothermal has ahuge amount of promise for the

statehuge amount of promise for the state inhuge amount of promise for the state in termshuge amount of promise for the state in terms ofhuge amount of promise for the state in terms of anhuge amount of promise for the state in terms of an alternativestate in terms of an alternative huge amount of promise for thestate in terms of an alternative nonfossilstate in terms of an alternative nonfossil resourcestate in terms of an alternative

nonfossil resource bothstate in terms of an alternative nonfossil resource both instate in terms of an alternative nonfossil resource both in termsnonfossil resource both in terms state in terms of an alternativenonfossil resource both in terms of heatingnonfossil resource both in terms of heating andnonfossil resource both in terms of heating and coolingnonfossil resource both in terms of heating and cooling andnonfossil resource both in terms of heating and cooling and theof heating and cooling and the

nonfossil resource both in termsof heating and cooling and the example,of heating and cooling and the example, theof heating and cooling and the example, the projectof heating and cooling and the example, the project thatof heating and cooling and the example, the project that wasexample, the project that was of heating and cooling and theexample, the project that was doneexample, the project that was done inexample, the project that was

done in americanexample, the project that was done in american waterexample, the project that was done in american water isexample, the project that was done in american water is reallydone in american water is really example, the project that wasdone in american water is really unrelateddone in american water is really unrelated todone in american water is really unrelated to this,done in american water is really unrelated to this, butdone in american water is really

unrelated to this, but it'sunrelated to this, but it's done in american water is reallyunrelated to this, but it's somethingunrelated to this, but it's something thatunrelated to this, but it's something that commissionersomething that commissioner unrelated to this, but it'ssomething that commissioner acompoursomething that commissioner acompour hassomething that commissioner acompour has spentsomething that commissioner

acompour has spent asomething that commissioner acompour has spent a lotsomething that commissioner acompour has spent a lot ofsomething that commissioner acompour has spent a lot of timeacompour has spent a lot of time something that commissioneracompour has spent a lot of time lookingacompour has spent a lot of time looking atacompour has spent a lot of time looking at andacompour has spent a lot of time looking at and it'sacompour has spent a lot of time

looking at and it's importantacompour has spent a lot of time looking at and it's important tolooking at and it's important to acompour has spent a lot of timelooking at and it's important to takelooking at and it's important to take alooking at and it's important to take a looklooking at and it's important to take a look atlooking at and it's important to take a look at itlooking at and it's important to take a look at it fromlooking at and it's important to

take a look at it from atake a look at it from a looking at and it's important totake a look at it from a consumertake a look at it from a consumer perspective.consumer perspective. take a look at it from aconsumer perspective. howconsumer perspective. how canconsumer perspective. how can iconsumer perspective. how can i getconsumer perspective.

how can i get myconsumer perspective. how can i get my needsconsumer perspective. how can i get my needs metconsumer perspective. how can i get my needs met inconsumer perspective. how can i get my needs met in ahow can i get my needs met in a consumer perspective.how can i get my needs met in a wayhow can i get my needs met in a way that'show can i get my needs met in a way that's morehow can i get my needs met in a

way that's more costhow can i get my needs met in a way that's more cost effectiveway that's more cost effective how can i get my needs met in away that's more cost effective andway that's more cost effective and ifway that's more cost effective and if iway that's more cost effective and if i haveway that's more cost effective and if i have concernsway that's more cost effective and if i have concerns aboutand if i have concerns about

way that's more cost effectiveand if i have concerns about wantingand if i have concerns about wanting toand if i have concerns about wanting to reduceand if i have concerns about wanting to reduce carbonwanting to reduce carbon and if i have concerns aboutwanting to reduce carbon emissionswanting to reduce carbon emissions usingwanting to reduce carbon emissions using awanting to reduce carbon

emissions using a renewableemissions using a renewable wanting to reduce carbonemissions using a renewable resource,emissions using a renewable resource, inemissions using a renewable resource, in thisemissions using a renewable resource, in this caseemissions using a renewable resource, in this case water,emissions using a renewable resource, in this case water, asresource, in this case water, as emissions using a renewableresource, in this case water, as

a formresource, in this case water, as a form ofresource, in this case water, as a form of heatingresource, in this case water, as a form of heating andresource, in this case water, as a form of heating and cooling?a form of heating and cooling? resource, in this case water, asa form of heating and cooling? onea form of heating and cooling? one ofa form of heating and cooling? one of thea form of heating and cooling?

one of the challengesa form of heating and cooling? one of the challenges thata form of heating and cooling? one of the challenges that weone of the challenges that we a form of heating and cooling?one of the challenges that we haveone of the challenges that we have asone of the challenges that we have as weone of the challenges that we have as we takeone of the challenges that we have as we take aone of the challenges that we

have as we take a lookone of the challenges that we have as we take a look atone of the challenges that we have as we take a look at thehave as we take a look at the one of the challenges that wehave as we take a look at the carbonizationhave as we take a look at the carbonization ishave as we take a look at the carbonization is reallyhave as we take a look at the carbonization is really lookingcarbonization is really looking have as we take a look at thecarbonization is really looking

at the opportunitycarbonization is really looking at the opportunity tocarbonization is really looking at the opportunity to lookcarbonization is really looking at the opportunity to look atat the opportunity to look at carbonization is really lookingat the opportunity to look at differentat the opportunity to look at different businessat the opportunity to look at different business modelsat the opportunity to look at different business models anddifferent business models and

at the opportunity to look atdifferent business models and havingdifferent business models and having differentdifferent business models and having different existinghaving different existing different business models andhaving different existing business models and inhaving different existing business models and in thisbusiness models and in this having different existingbusiness models and in this case,business models and in this

case, abusiness models and in this case, a gasbusiness models and in this case, a gas utilitybusiness models and in this case, a gas utility andbusiness models and in this case, a gas utility and lookingcase, a gas utility and looking business models and in thiscase, a gas utility and looking atcase, a gas utility and looking at howcase, a gas utility and looking at how itcase, a gas utility and looking

at how it cancase, a gas utility and looking at how it can servecase, a gas utility and looking at how it can serve customerscase, a gas utility and looking at how it can serve customers inat how it can serve customers in case, a gas utility and lookingat how it can serve customers in a differentat how it can serve customers in a different wayat how it can serve customers in a different way andat how it can serve customers in a different way and howat how it can serve customers in

a different way and how itat how it can serve customers in a different way and how it cana different way and how it can at how it can serve customers ina different way and how it can createa different way and how it can create businessa different way and how it can create business modela different way and how it can create business model alonea different way and how it can create business model alone orcreate business model alone or a different way and how it cancreate business model alone or

increate business model alone or in combinationcreate business model alone or in combination withcreate business model alone or in combination with thein combination with the create business model alone orin combination with the neighboringin combination with the neighboring electricin combination with the neighboring electric utilityin combination with the neighboring electric utility orneighboring electric utility or

in combination with theneighboring electric utility or with the waterneighboring electric utility or with the water company.with the water company. neighboring electric utility orwith the water company. i don'twith the water company. i don't thinkwith the water company. i don't think wewith the water company. i don't think we havewith the water company. i don't think we have thei don't think we have the

with the water company.i don't think we have the details.details. i don't think we have thedetails. i thinkdetails. i think that's,details. i think that's, todetails. i think that's, to me,details. i think that's, to me, thedetails. i think that's, to me, the valuei think that's, to me, the value

details.i think that's, to me, the value ofi think that's, to me, the value of whyi think that's, to me, the value of why wei think that's, to me, the value of why we doi think that's, to me, the value of why we do theseof why we do these i think that's, to me, the valueof why we do these demonstrations.demonstrations. of why we do thesedemonstrations.

it'sdemonstrations. it's notdemonstrations. it's not sodemonstrations. it's not so muchdemonstrations. it's not so much thedemonstrations. it's not so much the technologyit's not so much the technology demonstrations.it's not so much the technology becauseit's not so much the technology because init's not so much the technology

because in thisit's not so much the technology because in this case,it's not so much the technology because in this case, thebecause in this case, the it's not so much the technologybecause in this case, the technology likebecause in this case, the technology like inbecause in this case, the technology like in manybecause in this case, the technology like in many casesbecause in this case, the technology like in many cases istechnology like in many cases is

because in this case, thetechnology like in many cases is clearlytechnology like in many cases is clearly proven.clearly proven. technology like in many cases isclearly proven. it'sclearly proven. it's justclearly proven. it's just thatclearly proven. it's just that weclearly proven. it's just that we don'tclearly proven.

it's just that we don't haveclearly proven. it's just that we don't have ait's just that we don't have a clearly proven.it's just that we don't have a businessit's just that we don't have a business modelit's just that we don't have a business model thatit's just that we don't have a business model that reallyit's just that we don't have a business model that really worksbusiness model that really works it's just that we don't have abusiness model that really works

costbusiness model that really works cost effectivelybusiness model that really works cost effectively evenbusiness model that really works cost effectively even thoughbusiness model that really works cost effectively even though wecost effectively even though we business model that really workscost effectively even though we knowcost effectively even though we know thatcost effectively even though we know that therecost effectively even though we

know that there iscost effectively even though we know that there is acost effectively even though we know that there is a hugeknow that there is a huge cost effectively even though weknow that there is a huge consumerknow that there is a huge consumer benefitknow that there is a huge consumer benefit andknow that there is a huge consumer benefit and anconsumer benefit and an know that there is a hugeconsumer benefit and an

environmentalconsumer benefit and an environmental benefitconsumer benefit and an environmental benefit andconsumer benefit and an environmental benefit and ienvironmental benefit and i consumer benefit and anenvironmental benefit and i applaudenvironmental benefit and i applaud theenvironmental benefit and i applaud the utilityenvironmental benefit and i applaud the utility becauseenvironmental benefit and i

applaud the utility because iapplaud the utility because i environmental benefit and iapplaud the utility because i knowapplaud the utility because i know thatapplaud the utility because i know that thisapplaud the utility because i know that this isapplaud the utility because i know that this is aapplaud the utility because i know that this is a non-wiresknow that this is a non-wires applaud the utility because iknow that this is a non-wires

alternativeknow that this is a non-wires alternative andknow that this is a non-wires alternative and thisknow that this is a non-wires alternative and this isknow that this is a non-wires alternative and this is aalternative and this is a know that this is a non-wiresalternative and this is a non-pipealternative and this is a non-pipe alternativealternative and this is a non-pipe alternative foralternative and this is a

non-pipe alternative for heatingnon-pipe alternative for heating alternative and this is anon-pipe alternative for heating and alsonon-pipe alternative for heating and also innon-pipe alternative for heating and also in thisnon-pipe alternative for heating and also in this case,and also in this case, non-pipe alternative for heatingand also in this case, potentiallyand also in this case, potentially cooling.potentially cooling.

and also in this case,potentially cooling. and thepotentially cooling. and the experiencepotentially cooling. and the experience thatpotentially cooling. and the experience that wepotentially cooling. and the experience that we had,and the experience that we had, potentially cooling.and the experience that we had, andand the experience that we had, and iand the experience that we had,

and i hadand the experience that we had, and i had aand the experience that we had, and i had a chanceand the experience that we had, and i had a chance toand the experience that we had, and i had a chance to visitand the experience that we had, and i had a chance to visit theand i had a chance to visit the and the experience that we had,and i had a chance to visit the schooland i had a chance to visit the school whereand i had a chance to visit the

school where itand i had a chance to visit the school where it wasand i had a chance to visit the school where it was done.school where it was done. and i had a chance to visit theschool where it was done. the teachersschool where it was done. the teachers areschool where it was done. the teachers are delightedthe teachers are delighted school where it was done.the teachers are delighted becausethe teachers are delighted

because they'rethe teachers are delighted because they're ablethe teachers are delighted because they're able tothe teachers are delighted because they're able to keepthe teachers are delighted because they're able to keep thebecause they're able to keep the the teachers are delightedbecause they're able to keep the windowsbecause they're able to keep the windows closedbecause they're able to keep the windows closed andbecause they're able to keep the

windows closed and thewindows closed and the because they're able to keep thewindows closed and the temperaturewindows closed and the temperature moderatewindows closed and the temperature moderate inwindows closed and the temperature moderate in thewindows closed and the temperature moderate in the latetemperature moderate in the late windows closed and thetemperature moderate in the late springtemperature moderate in the late

spring andtemperature moderate in the late spring and thetemperature moderate in the late spring and the earlytemperature moderate in the late spring and the early summer,temperature moderate in the late spring and the early summer, asspring and the early summer, as temperature moderate in the latespring and the early summer, as wellspring and the early summer, as well asspring and the early summer, as well as keepspring and the early summer, as

well as keep thespring and the early summer, as well as keep the moderatewell as keep the moderate spring and the early summer, aswell as keep the moderate temperaturewell as keep the moderate temperature allwell as keep the moderate temperature all winter.temperature all winter. well as keep the moderatetemperature all winter. fortemperature all winter. for antemperature all winter.

for an oldtemperature all winter. for an old schooltemperature all winter. for an old school andtemperature all winter. for an old school and fortemperature all winter. for an old school and for anfor an old school and for an temperature all winter.for an old school and for an opportunityfor an old school and for an opportunity tofor an old school and for an opportunity to reducefor an old school and for an

opportunity to reduce theiropportunity to reduce their for an old school and for anopportunity to reduce their operatingopportunity to reduce their operating expense,opportunity to reduce their operating expense, achieveopportunity to reduce their operating expense, achieve theiroperating expense, achieve their opportunity to reduce theiroperating expense, achieve their carbonoperating expense, achieve their carbon goalsoperating expense, achieve their

carbon goals andoperating expense, achieve their carbon goals and keepoperating expense, achieve their carbon goals and keep kidscarbon goals and keep kids operating expense, achieve theircarbon goals and keep kids focusedcarbon goals and keep kids focused becausecarbon goals and keep kids focused because they'recarbon goals and keep kids focused because they're notfocused because they're not carbon goals and keep kidsfocused because they're not

lookingfocused because they're not looking outfocused because they're not looking out thefocused because they're not looking out the windowfocused because they're not looking out the window orlooking out the window or focused because they're notlooking out the window or sweating,looking out the window or sweating, ilooking out the window or sweating, i thinklooking out the window or

sweating, i think thoselooking out the window or sweating, i think those arelooking out the window or sweating, i think those are allsweating, i think those are all looking out the window orsweating, i think those are all goodsweating, i think those are all good things.good things. sweating, i think those are allgood things. i'mgood things. i'm gladgood things.

i'm glad thatgood things. i'm glad that we'regood things. i'm glad that we're goinggood things. i'm glad that we're going toi'm glad that we're going to good things.i'm glad that we're going to explorei'm glad that we're going to explore howi'm glad that we're going to explore how wei'm glad that we're going to explore how we cani'm glad that we're going to

explore how we can developi'm glad that we're going to explore how we can develop theexplore how we can develop the i'm glad that we're going toexplore how we can develop the businessexplore how we can develop the business modelexplore how we can develop the business model aroundexplore how we can develop the business model around usexplore how we can develop the business model around us andexplore how we can develop the business model around us and ibusiness model around us and i

explore how we can develop thebusiness model around us and i certainlybusiness model around us and i certainly appreciatebusiness model around us and i certainly appreciate thatbusiness model around us and i certainly appreciate that thecertainly appreciate that the business model around us and icertainly appreciate that the utilitycertainly appreciate that the utility iscertainly appreciate that the utility is willingcertainly appreciate that the

utility is willing tocertainly appreciate that the utility is willing to seecertainly appreciate that the utility is willing to see ifcertainly appreciate that the utility is willing to see if weutility is willing to see if we certainly appreciate that theutility is willing to see if we canutility is willing to see if we can makeutility is willing to see if we can make thisutility is willing to see if we can make this work.can make this work.

utility is willing to see if wecan make this work. i thinkcan make this work. i think that'scan make this work. i think that's prettycan make this work. i think that's pretty muchcan make this work. i think that's pretty much whati think that's pretty much what can make this work.i think that's pretty much what it'si think that's pretty much what it's about.it's about.

i think that's pretty much whatit's about. >>it's about. >> so,it's about. >> so, andit's about. >> so, and again,it's about. >> so, and again, i'mit's about. >> so, and again, i'm focusedit's about. >> so, and again, i'm focused on>> so, and again, i'm focused on it's about.>> so, and again, i'm focused on

through>> so, and again, i'm focused on through diversity>> so, and again, i'm focused on through diversity and>> so, and again, i'm focused on through diversity and looking>> so, and again, i'm focused on through diversity and looking atthrough diversity and looking at >> so, and again, i'm focused onthrough diversity and looking at thingsthrough diversity and looking at things thatthrough diversity and looking at things that arethrough diversity and looking at

things that are technologythings that are technology through diversity and looking atthings that are technology neutralthings that are technology neutral asthings that are technology neutral as wethings that are technology neutral as we movethings that are technology neutral as we move towardsneutral as we move towards things that are technologyneutral as we move towards valuingneutral as we move towards

valuing carbon,neutral as we move towards valuing carbon, notneutral as we move towards valuing carbon, not justneutral as we move towards valuing carbon, not just carbonvaluing carbon, not just carbon neutral as we move towardsvaluing carbon, not just carbon andvaluing carbon, not just carbon and ensuringvaluing carbon, not just carbon and ensuring thatvaluing carbon, not just carbon and ensuring that allvaluing carbon, not just carbon

and ensuring that all ourvaluing carbon, not just carbon and ensuring that all our assetsand ensuring that all our assets valuing carbon, not just carbonand ensuring that all our assets areand ensuring that all our assets are carefullyand ensuring that all our assets are carefully evaluatedand ensuring that all our assets are carefully evaluated andare carefully evaluated and and ensuring that all our assetsare carefully evaluated and obviouslyare carefully evaluated and

obviously workingare carefully evaluated and obviously working onare carefully evaluated and obviously working on theare carefully evaluated and obviously working on the overallobviously working on the overall are carefully evaluated andobviously working on the overall mixobviously working on the overall mix ofobviously working on the overall mix of ourobviously working on the overall mix of our fuelobviously working on the overall

mix of our fuel andobviously working on the overall mix of our fuel and themix of our fuel and the obviously working on the overallmix of our fuel and the implicationsmix of our fuel and the implications formix of our fuel and the implications for thatmix of our fuel and the implications for that onmix of our fuel and the implications for that on theimplications for that on the mix of our fuel and theimplications for that on the

reliabilityimplications for that on the reliability andimplications for that on the reliability and theimplications for that on the reliability and the resiliencyreliability and the resiliency implications for that on thereliability and the resiliency ofreliability and the resiliency of ourreliability and the resiliency of our gridreliability and the resiliency of our grid andreliability and the resiliency

of our grid and maintainingreliability and the resiliency of our grid and maintaining thatof our grid and maintaining that reliability and the resiliencyof our grid and maintaining that and toof our grid and maintaining that and to theof our grid and maintaining that and to the extentof our grid and maintaining that and to the extent thatof our grid and maintaining that and to the extent that weof our grid and maintaining that and to the extent that we lookand to the extent that we look

of our grid and maintaining thatand to the extent that we look at theseand to the extent that we look at these --and to the extent that we look at these -- atand to the extent that we look at these -- at theseand to the extent that we look at these -- at these thingsand to the extent that we look at these -- at these things andat these -- at these things and and to the extent that we lookat these -- at these things and makeat these -- at these things and

make sureat these -- at these things and make sure thatat these -- at these things and make sure that weat these -- at these things and make sure that we areat these -- at these things and make sure that we are cognizantmake sure that we are cognizant at these -- at these things andmake sure that we are cognizant ofmake sure that we are cognizant of thatmake sure that we are cognizant of that andmake sure that we are cognizant

of that and alsomake sure that we are cognizant of that and also thatmake sure that we are cognizant of that and also that --make sure that we are cognizant of that and also that -- tomake sure that we are cognizant of that and also that -- to theof that and also that -- to the make sure that we are cognizantof that and also that -- to the extentof that and also that -- to the extent thatof that and also that -- to the extent that thereof that and also that -- to the

extent that there areof that and also that -- to the extent that there are --of that and also that -- to the extent that there are -- andextent that there are -- and of that and also that -- to theextent that there are -- and thisextent that there are -- and this isextent that there are -- and this is aextent that there are -- and this is a pilotextent that there are -- and this is a pilot characterizedthis is a pilot characterized

extent that there are -- andthis is a pilot characterized here andthis is a pilot characterized here and wantthis is a pilot characterized here and want athis is a pilot characterized here and want a demothis is a pilot characterized here and want a demo tothis is a pilot characterized here and want a demo to thehere and want a demo to the this is a pilot characterizedhere and want a demo to the extenthere and want a demo to the

extent thathere and want a demo to the extent that thishere and want a demo to the extent that this pilothere and want a demo to the extent that this pilot programextent that this pilot program here and want a demo to theextent that this pilot program isextent that this pilot program is exploringextent that this pilot program is exploring thatextent that this pilot program is exploring that andextent that this pilot program

is exploring that and theis exploring that and the extent that this pilot programis exploring that and the potentialis exploring that and the potential taxpayeris exploring that and the potential taxpayer oris exploring that and the potential taxpayer or rateis exploring that and the potential taxpayer or rate payerpotential taxpayer or rate payer is exploring that and thepotential taxpayer or rate payer costpotential taxpayer or rate payer

cost maypotential taxpayer or rate payer cost may needpotential taxpayer or rate payer cost may need topotential taxpayer or rate payer cost may need to bepotential taxpayer or rate payer cost may need to be lookedpotential taxpayer or rate payer cost may need to be looked at,cost may need to be looked at, potential taxpayer or rate payercost may need to be looked at, notcost may need to be looked at, not onlycost may need to be looked at,

not only fromcost may need to be looked at, not only from thecost may need to be looked at, not only from the benefitcost may need to be looked at, not only from the benefit ofnot only from the benefit of cost may need to be looked at,not only from the benefit of cost analysis,not only from the benefit of cost analysis, butnot only from the benefit of cost analysis, but tonot only from the benefit of cost analysis, but to thenot only from the benefit of

cost analysis, but to the extentcost analysis, but to the extent not only from the benefit ofcost analysis, but to the extent thatcost analysis, but to the extent that wecost analysis, but to the extent that we werecost analysis, but to the extent that we were lookingcost analysis, but to the extent that we were looking atcost analysis, but to the extent that we were looking at ourthat we were looking at our cost analysis, but to the extentthat we were looking at our

entirethat we were looking at our entire energythat we were looking at our entire energy systemthat we were looking at our entire energy system andthat we were looking at our entire energy system and whatentire energy system and what that we were looking at ourentire energy system and what that meansentire energy system and what that means andentire energy system and what that means and whatentire energy system and what

that means and what mightentire energy system and what that means and what might bethat means and what might be entire energy system and whatthat means and what might be needed.needed. that means and what might beneeded. soneeded. so i'mneeded. so i'm focusededneeded. so i'm focuseded onneeded.

so i'm focuseded on thatneeded. so i'm focuseded on that aspectso i'm focuseded on that aspect needed.so i'm focuseded on that aspect ofso i'm focuseded on that aspect of it.of it. so i'm focuseded on that aspectof it. i won'tof it. i won't speakof it. i won't speak aboutof it.

i won't speak about thei won't speak about the of it.i won't speak about the streamlinei won't speak about the streamline becausei won't speak about the streamline because ii won't speak about the streamline because i knowi won't speak about the streamline because i know that'sstreamline because i know that's i won't speak about thestreamline because i know that's partstreamline because i know that's

part ofstreamline because i know that's part of thestreamline because i know that's part of the ongoingstreamline because i know that's part of the ongoing proceedingspart of the ongoing proceedings streamline because i know that'spart of the ongoing proceedings relatedpart of the ongoing proceedings related topart of the ongoing proceedings related to thatpart of the ongoing proceedings related to that waterpart of the ongoing proceedings

related to that water companypart of the ongoing proceedings related to that water company sorelated to that water company so part of the ongoing proceedingsrelated to that water company so i amrelated to that water company so i am cognizantrelated to that water company so i am cognizant ofrelated to that water company so i am cognizant of that.i am cognizant of that. related to that water company soi am cognizant of that. wheni am cognizant of that.

when ii am cognizant of that. when i looki am cognizant of that. when i look ati am cognizant of that. when i look at this,i am cognizant of that. when i look at this, ii am cognizant of that. when i look at this, i alsoi am cognizant of that. when i look at this, i also hadwhen i look at this, i also had i am cognizant of that.when i look at this, i also had questionswhen i look at this, i also had

questions onwhen i look at this, i also had questions on thewhen i look at this, i also had questions on the sirwhen i look at this, i also had questions on the sir andwhen i look at this, i also had questions on the sir and thequestions on the sir and the when i look at this, i also hadquestions on the sir and the recoveryquestions on the sir and the recovery mechanismquestions on the sir and the recovery mechanismsquestions on the sir and the

recovery mechanisms goingquestions on the sir and the recovery mechanisms going afterrecovery mechanisms going after questions on the sir and therecovery mechanisms going after othersrecovery mechanisms going after others torecovery mechanisms going after others to participaterecovery mechanisms going after others to participate inothers to participate in recovery mechanisms going afterothers to participate in reducingothers to participate in

reducing orothers to participate in reducing or beingothers to participate in reducing or being aothers to participate in reducing or being a partothers to participate in reducing or being a part ofothers to participate in reducing or being a part of thereducing or being a part of the others to participate inreducing or being a part of the costreducing or being a part of the cost asreducing or being a part of the

cost as wellreducing or being a part of the cost as well asreducing or being a part of the cost as well as thereducing or being a part of the cost as well as the litigationcost as well as the litigation reducing or being a part of thecost as well as the litigation thatcost as well as the litigation that mightcost as well as the litigation that might becost as well as the litigation that might be involvedcost as well as the litigation

that might be involved incost as well as the litigation that might be involved in that.that might be involved in that. cost as well as the litigationthat might be involved in that. tothat might be involved in that. to thethat might be involved in that. to the extentthat might be involved in that. to the extent thatthat might be involved in that. to the extent that thisthat might be involved in that. to the extent that this wasto the extent that this was

that might be involved in that.to the extent that this was lookedto the extent that this was looked atto the extent that this was looked at carefullyto the extent that this was looked at carefully andto the extent that this was looked at carefully and aljto the extent that this was looked at carefully and alj andlooked at carefully and alj and to the extent that this waslooked at carefully and alj and aljlooked at carefully and alj and

alj costelolooked at carefully and alj and alj costelo andlooked at carefully and alj and alj costelo and articulatedlooked at carefully and alj and alj costelo and articulated whatalj costelo and articulated what looked at carefully and alj andalj costelo and articulated what isalj costelo and articulated what is beingalj costelo and articulated what is being donealj costelo and articulated what is being done onalj costelo and articulated what

is being done on that.is being done on that. alj costelo and articulated whatis being done on that. i'mis being done on that. i'm veryis being done on that. i'm very comfortableis being done on that. i'm very comfortable andis being done on that. i'm very comfortable and weis being done on that. i'm very comfortable and we havei'm very comfortable and we have is being done on that.i'm very comfortable and we have

beeni'm very comfortable and we have been laseri'm very comfortable and we have been laser focusedi'm very comfortable and we have been laser focused oni'm very comfortable and we have been laser focused on thatbeen laser focused on that i'm very comfortable and we havebeen laser focused on that aspectbeen laser focused on that aspect andbeen laser focused on that aspect and tryingbeen laser focused on that

aspect and trying tobeen laser focused on that aspect and trying to makebeen laser focused on that aspect and trying to make sureaspect and trying to make sure been laser focused on thataspect and trying to make sure that weaspect and trying to make sure that we wereaspect and trying to make sure that we were carefullyaspect and trying to make sure that we were carefully handlingthat we were carefully handling aspect and trying to make surethat we were carefully handling

thosethat we were carefully handling those issuesthat we were carefully handling those issues andthat we were carefully handling those issues and recoverythat we were carefully handling those issues and recovery that'sthose issues and recovery that's that we were carefully handlingthose issues and recovery that's in there.in there. those issues and recovery that'sin there. whatin there.

what isin there. what is ourin there. what is our rolein there. what is our role inin there. what is our role in workingwhat is our role in working in there.what is our role in working throughwhat is our role in working through somewhat is our role in working through some ofwhat is our role in working

through some of thosewhat is our role in working through some of those challengesthrough some of those challenges what is our role in workingthrough some of those challenges withthrough some of those challenges with third-partythrough some of those challenges with third-party recovery?with third-party recovery? through some of those challengeswith third-party recovery? iswith third-party recovery? is thatwith third-party recovery?

is that ourswith third-party recovery? is that ours orwith third-party recovery? is that ours or iswith third-party recovery? is that ours or is thatwith third-party recovery? is that ours or is that bec?is that ours or is that bec? with third-party recovery?is that ours or is that bec? i'mis that ours or is that bec? i'm justis that ours or is that bec? i'm just tryingis that ours or is that bec?

i'm just trying tois that ours or is that bec? i'm just trying to --i'm just trying to -- is that ours or is that bec?i'm just trying to -- >>i'm just trying to -- >> youi'm just trying to -- >> you can'ti'm just trying to -- >> you can't hear?>> you can't hear? i'm just trying to -->> you can't hear? you>> you can't hear?

you need>> you can't hear? you need to>> you can't hear? you need to speak>> you can't hear? you need to speak closer.you need to speak closer. >> you can't hear?you need to speak closer. >> weyou need to speak closer. >> we needyou need to speak closer. >> we need toyou need to speak closer. >> we need to getyou need to speak closer.

>> we need to get anotheryou need to speak closer. >> we need to get another mike>> we need to get another mike you need to speak closer.>> we need to get another mike for>> we need to get another mike for me.for me. >> we need to get another mikefor me. itfor me. it alwaysfor me. it always seemsfor me.

it always seems tofor me. it always seems to befor me. it always seems to be anfor me. it always seems to be an issue.it always seems to be an issue. for me.it always seems to be an issue. i'mit always seems to be an issue. i'm gladit always seems to be an issue. i'm glad youit always seems to be an issue. i'm glad you spokeit always seems to be an issue.

i'm glad you spoke up.i'm glad you spoke up. it always seems to be an issue.i'm glad you spoke up. everyonei'm glad you spoke up. everyone thati'm glad you spoke up. everyone that can'ti'm glad you spoke up. everyone that can't heari'm glad you spoke up. everyone that can't hear me,everyone that can't hear me, i'm glad you spoke up.everyone that can't hear me, speakeveryone that can't hear me,

speak up,everyone that can't hear me, speak up, youeveryone that can't hear me, speak up, you know?speak up, you know? everyone that can't hear me,speak up, you know? >> do you want to speak to thator cindy or doris or judge maynard?maynard? or cindy or doris or judgemaynard? whichmaynard? which one?which one?

maynard?which one? >>which one? >> iwhich one? >> i thinkwhich one? >> i think they'rewhich one? >> i think they're workingwhich one? >> i think they're working this.>> i think they're working this. which one?>> i think they're working this. the>> i think they're working this.

the question>> i think they're working this. the question is>> i think they're working this. the question is i'm>> i think they're working this. the question is i'm looking>> i think they're working this. the question is i'm looking atthe question is i'm looking at >> i think they're working this.the question is i'm looking at the sirthe question is i'm looking at the sir compliancethe question is i'm looking at the sir compliance andthe question is i'm looking at

the sir compliance and cindy,the question is i'm looking at the sir compliance and cindy, dothe sir compliance and cindy, do the question is i'm looking atthe sir compliance and cindy, do youthe sir compliance and cindy, do you wantthe sir compliance and cindy, do you want tothe sir compliance and cindy, do you want to talkthe sir compliance and cindy, do you want to talk aboutthe sir compliance and cindy, do you want to talk about it?you want to talk about it?

the sir compliance and cindy, doyou want to talk about it? >>you want to talk about it? >> sure.>> sure. you want to talk about it?>> sure. the>> sure. the staff>> sure. the staff has>> sure. the staff has a>> sure. the staff has a pretty>> sure.

the staff has a pretty extensivethe staff has a pretty extensive >> sure.the staff has a pretty extensive processthe staff has a pretty extensive process andthe staff has a pretty extensive process and certainlythe staff has a pretty extensive process and certainly thethe staff has a pretty extensive process and certainly the gasprocess and certainly the gas the staff has a pretty extensiveprocess and certainly the gas andprocess and certainly the gas

and waterprocess and certainly the gas and water rateprocess and certainly the gas and water rate sectionprocess and certainly the gas and water rate section auditsand water rate section audits process and certainly the gasand water rate section audits the wayand water rate section audits the way thatand water rate section audits the way that theand water rate section audits the way that the utilitiesand water rate section audits

the way that the utilities lookthe way that the utilities look and water rate section auditsthe way that the utilities look tothe way that the utilities look to findthe way that the utilities look to find otherthe way that the utilities look to find other partiesthe way that the utilities look to find other parties toto find other parties to the way that the utilities lookto find other parties to contributeto find other parties to

contribute toto find other parties to contribute to theto find other parties to contribute to the costto find other parties to contribute to the cost recoverycontribute to the cost recovery to find other parties tocontribute to the cost recovery andcontribute to the cost recovery and alsocontribute to the cost recovery and also ensuringcontribute to the cost recovery and also ensuring thatcontribute to the cost recovery

and also ensuring that thecontribute to the cost recovery and also ensuring that the workand also ensuring that the work contribute to the cost recoveryand also ensuring that the work that'sand also ensuring that the work that's doneand also ensuring that the work that's done isand also ensuring that the work that's done is workand also ensuring that the work that's done is work that,and also ensuring that the work that's done is work that, youthat's done is work that, you

and also ensuring that the workthat's done is work that, you know,that's done is work that, you know, whetherthat's done is work that, you know, whether findingthat's done is work that, you know, whether finding waysthat's done is work that, you know, whether finding ways toknow, whether finding ways to that's done is work that, youknow, whether finding ways to containknow, whether finding ways to contain costsknow, whether finding ways to

contain costs andknow, whether finding ways to contain costs and notknow, whether finding ways to contain costs and not justcontain costs and not just know, whether finding ways tocontain costs and not just writingcontain costs and not just writing blankcontain costs and not just writing blank checkscontain costs and not just writing blank checks tocontain costs and not just writing blank checks to peoplewriting blank checks to people

contain costs and not justwriting blank checks to people whowriting blank checks to people who arewriting blank checks to people who are doingwriting blank checks to people who are doing thewriting blank checks to people who are doing the clean-upwriting blank checks to people who are doing the clean-up work.who are doing the clean-up work. writing blank checks to peoplewho are doing the clean-up work. certainly,who are doing the clean-up work.

certainly, iwho are doing the clean-up work. certainly, i thinkwho are doing the clean-up work. certainly, i think doris'who are doing the clean-up work. certainly, i think doris' folkscertainly, i think doris' folks who are doing the clean-up work.certainly, i think doris' folks are alsocertainly, i think doris' folks are also auditingcertainly, i think doris' folks are also auditing thoseare also auditing those certainly, i think doris' folksare also auditing those

expenditures.expenditures. are also auditing thoseexpenditures. weexpenditures. we shouldexpenditures. we should alsoexpenditures. we should also addexpenditures. we should also add thatexpenditures. we should also add that thewe should also add that the expenditures.we should also add that the

scopewe should also add that the scope ofwe should also add that the scope of workwe should also add that the scope of work iswe should also add that the scope of work is coveredwe should also add that the scope of work is covered bywe should also add that the scope of work is covered by thescope of work is covered by the we should also add that thescope of work is covered by the decscope of work is covered by the

dec andscope of work is covered by the dec and notscope of work is covered by the dec and not byscope of work is covered by the dec and not by us.dec and not by us. scope of work is covered by thedec and not by us. >>dec and not by us. dec and not by us.>> yes. we're>> yes. we're looking>> yes.

we're looking that>> yes. we're looking that the>> yes. we're looking that the companywe're looking that the company >> yes.we're looking that the company iswe're looking that the company is efficientwe're looking that the company is efficient aswe're looking that the company is efficient as possiblewe're looking that the company is efficient as possible andis efficient as possible and

we're looking that the companyis efficient as possible and complyingis efficient as possible and complying withis efficient as possible and complying with dec.complying with dec. is efficient as possible andcomplying with dec. >>complying with dec. >> excusecomplying with dec. >> excuse me,complying with dec. >> excuse me, paul.>> excuse me, paul.

complying with dec.>> excuse me, paul. aren't>> excuse me, paul. aren't also>> excuse me, paul. aren't also the>> excuse me, paul. aren't also the feds>> excuse me, paul. aren't also the feds involved>> excuse me, paul. aren't also the feds involved inaren't also the feds involved in >> excuse me, paul.aren't also the feds involved in that,aren't also the feds involved in

that, too?that, too? aren't also the feds involved inthat, too? >>that, too? >> withthat, too? >> with respectthat, too? >> with respect tothat, too? >> with respect to thethat, too? >> with respect to the canal,>> with respect to the canal, that, too?>> with respect to the canal,

they>> with respect to the canal, they are.they are. >> with respect to the canal,they are. that'sthey are. that's morethey are. that's more onthey are. that's more on anthey are. that's more on an expeditedthat's more on an expedited they are.that's more on an expedited

basisthat's more on an expedited basis becausethat's more on an expedited basis because ofthat's more on an expedited basis because of thethat's more on an expedited basis because of the plannedbasis because of the planned that's more on an expeditedbasis because of the planned redevelopmentbasis because of the planned redevelopment forbasis because of the planned redevelopment for thatbasis because of the planned

redevelopment for that sitebasis because of the planned redevelopment for that site andredevelopment for that site and basis because of the plannedredevelopment for that site and thereredevelopment for that site and there areredevelopment for that site and there are eparedevelopment for that site and there are epasredevelopment for that site and there are epas involvedredevelopment for that site and there are epas involved inredevelopment for that site and

there are epas involved in thatthere are epas involved in that redevelopment for that site andthere are epas involved in that site.site. there are epas involved in thatsite. >>site. >> wouldsite. >> would yousite. >> would you saysite. >> would you say that'ssite.

>> would you say that's whysite. >> would you say that's why this>> would you say that's why this site.>> would you say that's why this has>> would you say that's why this has taken>> would you say that's why this has taken so>> would you say that's why this has taken so long.has taken so long. >> would you say that's why thishas taken so long. >> forhas taken so long.

>> for kiwanishas taken so long. >> for kiwanis specifically?>> for kiwanis specifically? has taken so long.>> for kiwanis specifically? >>>> for kiwanis specifically? >> for kiwanis specifically?>> yes. >> i>> yes. >> i think>> yes. >> i think part>> yes. >> i think part of>> yes.

>> i think part of it>> yes. >> i think part of it was>> yes. >> i think part of it was the>> i think part of it was the >> yes.>> i think part of it was the identification>> i think part of it was the identification of>> i think part of it was the identification of those>> i think part of it was the identification of those who>> i think part of it was the identification of those who areidentification of those who are

>> i think part of it was theidentification of those who are potentiallyidentification of those who are potentially responsibleidentification of those who are potentially responsible foridentification of those who are potentially responsible for thepotentially responsible for the identification of those who arepotentially responsible for the kiwanispotentially responsible for the kiwanis canalpotentially responsible for the kiwanis canal andpotentially responsible for the

kiwanis canal and newtownpotentially responsible for the kiwanis canal and newtown creek,kiwanis canal and newtown creek, potentially responsible for thekiwanis canal and newtown creek, butkiwanis canal and newtown creek, but itkiwanis canal and newtown creek, but it iskiwanis canal and newtown creek, but it is akiwanis canal and newtown creek, but it is a factor,kiwanis canal and newtown creek, but it is a factor, yes.but it is a factor, yes.

kiwanis canal and newtown creek,but it is a factor, yes. >>but it is a factor, yes. >> thankbut it is a factor, yes. >> thank you.>> thank you. but it is a factor, yes.>> thank you. >>>> thank you. >> thank you.>> okay. >> so>> okay. >> so accounting>> okay.

>> so accounting and>> okay. >> so accounting and audits>> so accounting and audits >> okay.>> so accounting and audits staff>> so accounting and audits staff is>> so accounting and audits staff is involved>> so accounting and audits staff is involved to>> so accounting and audits staff is involved to the>> so accounting and audits staff is involved to the extentstaff is involved to the extent

>> so accounting and auditsstaff is involved to the extent thatstaff is involved to the extent that it'sstaff is involved to the extent that it's partstaff is involved to the extent that it's part ofstaff is involved to the extent that it's part of thestaff is involved to the extent that it's part of the genericthat it's part of the generic staff is involved to the extentthat it's part of the generic sirthat it's part of the generic

sir ordersthat it's part of the generic sir orders asthat it's part of the generic sir orders as thethat it's part of the generic sir orders as the commissionsir orders as the commission that it's part of the genericsir orders as the commission issuedsir orders as the commission issued asir orders as the commission issued a fewsir orders as the commission issued a few yearssir orders as the commission

issued a few years agosir orders as the commission issued a few years ago andsir orders as the commission issued a few years ago and theyissued a few years ago and they sir orders as the commissionissued a few years ago and they requireissued a few years ago and they require annualissued a few years ago and they require annual reportingrequire annual reporting issued a few years ago and theyrequire annual reporting requirementsrequire annual reporting

requirements ofrequire annual reporting requirements of therequire annual reporting requirements of the utilitiesrequirements of the utilities require annual reportingrequirements of the utilities andrequirements of the utilities and allrequirements of the utilities and all ofrequirements of the utilities and all of themrequirements of the utilities and all of them inrequirements of the utilities

and all of them in therequirements of the utilities and all of them in the stateand all of them in the state requirements of the utilitiesand all of them in the state haveand all of them in the state have someand all of them in the state have some degreeand all of them in the state have some degree ofand all of them in the state have some degree of s.i.r.have some degree of s.i.r. and all of them in the statehave some degree of s.i.r.

responsibilityhave some degree of s.i.r. responsibility andhave some degree of s.i.r. responsibility and sohave some degree of s.i.r. responsibility and so staffhave some degree of s.i.r. responsibility and so staff inresponsibility and so staff in have some degree of s.i.r.responsibility and so staff in myresponsibility and so staff in my officeresponsibility and so staff in my office isresponsibility and so staff in

my office is involvedresponsibility and so staff in my office is involved inmy office is involved in responsibility and so staff inmy office is involved in revealingmy office is involved in revealing thosemy office is involved in revealing those annualmy office is involved in revealing those annual reportsrevealing those annual reports my office is involved inrevealing those annual reports andrevealing those annual reports

and compilingrevealing those annual reports and compiling arevealing those annual reports and compiling a reportrevealing those annual reports and compiling a report onrevealing those annual reports and compiling a report on allrevealing those annual reports and compiling a report on all ofand compiling a report on all of revealing those annual reportsand compiling a report on all of them.them. and compiling a report on all ofthem.

justthem. just tothem. just to bethem. just to be clear,them. just to be clear, oncejust to be clear, once them.just to be clear, once responsiblejust to be clear, once responsible forjust to be clear, once responsible for thejust to be clear, once

responsible for the cleanupjust to be clear, once responsible for the cleanup siteresponsible for the cleanup site just to be clear, onceresponsible for the cleanup site isresponsible for the cleanup site is assignedresponsible for the cleanup site is assigned byresponsible for the cleanup site is assigned by theresponsible for the cleanup site is assigned by the utilityresponsible for the cleanup site is assigned by the utility byis assigned by the utility by

responsible for the cleanup siteis assigned by the utility by eitheris assigned by the utility by either theis assigned by the utility by either the decis assigned by the utility by either the dec oris assigned by the utility by either the dec or theis assigned by the utility by either the dec or the epa.either the dec or the epa. is assigned by the utility byeither the dec or the epa. thateither the dec or the epa.

that becomeseither the dec or the epa. that becomes aeither the dec or the epa. that becomes a third-partythat becomes a third-party either the dec or the epa.that becomes a third-party expensethat becomes a third-party expense whichthat becomes a third-party expense which bythat becomes a third-party expense which by lawthat becomes a third-party expense which by law wasexpense which by law was

that becomes a third-partyexpense which by law was requiredexpense which by law was required toexpense which by law was required to passexpense which by law was required to pass through.required to pass through. expense which by law wasrequired to pass through. ourrequired to pass through. our issuerequired to pass through. our issue isrequired to pass through.

our issue is alwaysrequired to pass through. our issue is always torequired to pass through. our issue is always to makerequired to pass through. our issue is always to make sureour issue is always to make sure required to pass through.our issue is always to make sure thatour issue is always to make sure that they'reour issue is always to make sure that they're notour issue is always to make sure that they're not spendingour issue is always to make sure

that they're not spending morethat they're not spending more our issue is always to make surethat they're not spending more thanthat they're not spending more than necessarilythat they're not spending more than necessarily sothat they're not spending more than necessarily so it'sthan necessarily so it's that they're not spending morethan necessarily so it's prudent,than necessarily so it's prudent, butthan necessarily so it's

prudent, but wethan necessarily so it's prudent, but we couldn'tthan necessarily so it's prudent, but we couldn't legallyprudent, but we couldn't legally than necessarily so it'sprudent, but we couldn't legally sayprudent, but we couldn't legally say itprudent, but we couldn't legally say it wasprudent, but we couldn't legally say it was notprudent, but we couldn't legally say it was not usedprudent, but we couldn't legally

say it was not used andprudent, but we couldn't legally say it was not used and usefulsay it was not used and useful prudent, but we couldn't legallysay it was not used and useful insay it was not used and useful in thesay it was not used and useful in the provisionsay it was not used and useful in the provision ofsay it was not used and useful in the provision of service.in the provision of service. say it was not used and usefulin the provision of service.

thereforein the provision of service. therefore it'sin the provision of service. therefore it's ain the provision of service. therefore it's a recoverabletherefore it's a recoverable in the provision of service.therefore it's a recoverable expense.expense. therefore it's a recoverableexpense. >>expense. expense.>> okay.

thank>> okay. ithank you. i reallythank you. i really justthank you. i really just wantedthank you. i really just wanted tothank you. i really just wanted to makei really just wanted to make thank you.i really just wanted to make surei really just wanted to make

sure thati really just wanted to make sure that ii really just wanted to make sure that i clarifiedi really just wanted to make sure that i clarified thesure that i clarified the i really just wanted to makesure that i clarified the differentsure that i clarified the different aspectssure that i clarified the different aspects andsure that i clarified the different aspects and thesure that i clarified the

different aspects and the followdifferent aspects and the follow sure that i clarified thedifferent aspects and the follow updifferent aspects and the follow up thatdifferent aspects and the follow up that woulddifferent aspects and the follow up that would happendifferent aspects and the follow up that would happen anddifferent aspects and the follow up that would happen and theup that would happen and the different aspects and the followup that would happen and the

ongoingup that would happen and the ongoing processup that would happen and the ongoing process thatup that would happen and the ongoing process that weup that would happen and the ongoing process that we wouldup that would happen and the ongoing process that we would beongoing process that we would be up that would happen and theongoing process that we would be involvedongoing process that we would be involved in.involved in.

ongoing process that we would beinvolved in. i thinkinvolved in. i think thatinvolved in. i think that frominvolved in. i think that from myi think that from my involved in.i think that from my perspective,i think that from my perspective, thei think that from my perspective, the integrityi think that from my

perspective, the integrity andperspective, the integrity and i think that from myperspective, the integrity and reliabilityperspective, the integrity and reliability ofperspective, the integrity and reliability of theperspective, the integrity and reliability of the energyperspective, the integrity and reliability of the energy systemreliability of the energy system perspective, the integrity andreliability of the energy system isreliability of the energy system

is paramountreliability of the energy system is paramount andreliability of the energy system is paramount and thatreliability of the energy system is paramount and that includesis paramount and that includes reliability of the energy systemis paramount and that includes inis paramount and that includes in thisis paramount and that includes in this caseis paramount and that includes in this case becauseis paramount and that includes

in this case because we'rein this case because we're is paramount and that includesin this case because we're lookingin this case because we're looking atin this case because we're looking at thisin this case because we're looking at this fromin this case because we're looking at this from thein this case because we're looking at this from the gaslooking at this from the gas in this case because we'relooking at this from the gas

perspectivelooking at this from the gas perspective thatlooking at this from the gas perspective that thelooking at this from the gas perspective that the reliabilityperspective that the reliability looking at this from the gasperspective that the reliability ofperspective that the reliability of theperspective that the reliability of the gasperspective that the reliability of the gas systemperspective that the reliability

of the gas system isperspective that the reliability of the gas system is paramountof the gas system is paramount perspective that the reliabilityof the gas system is paramount andof the gas system is paramount and inof the gas system is paramount and in newof the gas system is paramount and in new york,of the gas system is paramount and in new york, weof the gas system is paramount and in new york, we haveof the gas system is paramount

and in new york, we have beenand in new york, we have been of the gas system is paramountand in new york, we have been laserand in new york, we have been laser focusedand in new york, we have been laser focused onand in new york, we have been laser focused on ensuringand in new york, we have been laser focused on ensuring welaser focused on ensuring we and in new york, we have beenlaser focused on ensuring we have safe,laser focused on ensuring we

have safe, reliablelaser focused on ensuring we have safe, reliable andlaser focused on ensuring we have safe, reliable and cleanhave safe, reliable and clean laser focused on ensuring wehave safe, reliable and clean naturalhave safe, reliable and clean natural gashave safe, reliable and clean natural gas systemshave safe, reliable and clean natural gas systems andhave safe, reliable and clean natural gas systems and whenhave safe, reliable and clean

natural gas systems and when wenatural gas systems and when we have safe, reliable and cleannatural gas systems and when we looknatural gas systems and when we look atnatural gas systems and when we look at that,natural gas systems and when we look at that, wenatural gas systems and when we look at that, we havenatural gas systems and when we look at that, we have innatural gas systems and when we look at that, we have in herelook at that, we have in here

natural gas systems and when welook at that, we have in here and ilook at that, we have in here and i thinklook at that, we have in here and i think it'slook at that, we have in here and i think it's alook at that, we have in here and i think it's a greatlook at that, we have in here and i think it's a great creditand i think it's a great credit look at that, we have in hereand i think it's a great credit toand i think it's a great credit

to seeand i think it's a great credit to see throughoutand i think it's a great credit to see throughout thisand i think it's a great credit to see throughout this jointto see throughout this joint and i think it's a great creditto see throughout this joint proposalto see throughout this joint proposal into see throughout this joint proposal in theto see throughout this joint proposal in the orderto see throughout this joint

proposal in the order andto see throughout this joint proposal in the order and thereproposal in the order and there to see throughout this jointproposal in the order and there areproposal in the order and there are severalproposal in the order and there are several gasproposal in the order and there are several gas initiativesproposal in the order and there are several gas initiatives thatare several gas initiatives that proposal in the order and thereare several gas initiatives that

areare several gas initiatives that are lookingare several gas initiatives that are looking atare several gas initiatives that are looking at activelyare several gas initiatives that are looking at actively beingare looking at actively being are several gas initiatives thatare looking at actively being engageare looking at actively being engage individualare looking at actively being engage individual threeare looking at actively being

engage individual three prongsengage individual three prongs are looking at actively beingengage individual three prongs ofengage individual three prongs of that,engage individual three prongs of that, bothengage individual three prongs of that, both safe,engage individual three prongs of that, both safe, reliableengage individual three prongs of that, both safe, reliable andof that, both safe, reliable and engage individual three prongsof that, both safe, reliable and

clean,of that, both safe, reliable and clean, naturalof that, both safe, reliable and clean, natural gas.clean, natural gas. of that, both safe, reliable andclean, natural gas. obviously,clean, natural gas. obviously, weclean, natural gas. obviously, we alwaysclean, natural gas. obviously, we always haveclean, natural gas. obviously, we always have toobviously, we always have to

clean, natural gas.obviously, we always have to lookobviously, we always have to look atobviously, we always have to look at theobviously, we always have to look at the reasonableobviously, we always have to look at the reasonable balancelook at the reasonable balance obviously, we always have tolook at the reasonable balance andlook at the reasonable balance and somelook at the reasonable balance

and some oflook at the reasonable balance and some of thatlook at the reasonable balance and some of that islook at the reasonable balance and some of that is thelook at the reasonable balance and some of that is the balanceand some of that is the balance look at the reasonable balanceand some of that is the balance on theand some of that is the balance on the industryand some of that is the balance on the industry whoand some of that is the balance

on the industry who wantsand some of that is the balance on the industry who wants toon the industry who wants to and some of that is the balanceon the industry who wants to participateon the industry who wants to participate andon the industry who wants to participate and haveon the industry who wants to participate and have theparticipate and have the on the industry who wants toparticipate and have the opportunityparticipate and have the

opportunity inparticipate and have the opportunity in theparticipate and have the opportunity in the balanceparticipate and have the opportunity in the balance foropportunity in the balance for participate and have theopportunity in the balance for the rateopportunity in the balance for the rate payeropportunity in the balance for the rate payer whoopportunity in the balance for the rate payer who wantsopportunity in the balance for

the rate payer who wants toopportunity in the balance for the rate payer who wants to havethe rate payer who wants to have opportunity in the balance forthe rate payer who wants to have the saferthe rate payer who wants to have the safer routethe rate payer who wants to have the safer route andthe rate payer who wants to have the safer route and cleanthe rate payer who wants to have the safer route and clean energythe safer route and clean energy the rate payer who wants to havethe safer route and clean energy

andthe safer route and clean energy and athe safer route and clean energy and a reasonablethe safer route and clean energy and a reasonable requestthe safer route and clean energy and a reasonable request andthe safer route and clean energy and a reasonable request and theand a reasonable request and the the safer route and clean energyand a reasonable request and the balanceand a reasonable request and the balance forand a reasonable request and the

balance for usand a reasonable request and the balance for us asand a reasonable request and the balance for us as regulatorsand a reasonable request and the balance for us as regulators inbalance for us as regulators in and a reasonable request and thebalance for us as regulators in lookingbalance for us as regulators in looking inbalance for us as regulators in looking in termsbalance for us as regulators in looking in terms ofbalance for us as regulators in

looking in terms of thebalance for us as regulators in looking in terms of the justbalance for us as regulators in looking in terms of the just andlooking in terms of the just and balance for us as regulators inlooking in terms of the just and reasonablenesslooking in terms of the just and reasonableness oflooking in terms of the just and reasonableness of thoselooking in terms of the just and reasonableness of those thingsreasonableness of those things looking in terms of the just andreasonableness of those things

and ensuringreasonableness of those things and ensuring thatreasonableness of those things and ensuring that wereasonableness of those things and ensuring that we havreasonableness of those things and ensuring that we divereasonableness of those things and ensuring that we dive intoand ensuring that we dive into reasonableness of those thingsand ensuring that we dive into theand ensuring that we dive into the fairnessand ensuring that we dive into

the fairness ofand ensuring that we dive into the fairness of thisand ensuring that we dive into the fairness of this andand ensuring that we dive into the fairness of this and thethe fairness of this and the and ensuring that we dive intothe fairness of this and the reasonablethe fairness of this and the reasonable ofthe fairness of this and the reasonable of thisthe fairness of this and the reasonable of this andreasonable of this and

the fairness of this and thereasonable of this and understandingreasonable of this and understanding howreasonable of this and understanding how itreasonable of this and understanding how it allreasonable of this and understanding how it all worksunderstanding how it all works reasonable of this andunderstanding how it all works and thenunderstanding how it all works and then makingunderstanding how it all works

and then making sureunderstanding how it all works and then making sure thatunderstanding how it all works and then making sure that weand then making sure that we understanding how it all worksand then making sure that we followand then making sure that we follow throughand then making sure that we follow through afterand then making sure that we follow through after --and then making sure that we follow through after -- inand then making sure that we

follow through after -- in thefollow through after -- in the and then making sure that wefollow through after -- in the specificfollow through after -- in the specific initiativesfollow through after -- in the specific initiatives andspecific initiatives and follow through after -- in thespecific initiatives and projects,specific initiatives and projects, andspecific initiatives and projects, and thespecific initiatives and

projects, and the aspectsspecific initiatives and projects, and the aspects ofprojects, and the aspects of specific initiatives andprojects, and the aspects of thisprojects, and the aspects of this orderprojects, and the aspects of this order thatprojects, and the aspects of this order that weprojects, and the aspects of this order that we haveprojects, and the aspects of this order that we have allowedthis order that we have allowed

projects, and the aspects ofthis order that we have allowed tothis order that we have allowed to gothis order that we have allowed to go forward.to go forward. this order that we have allowedto go forward. andto go forward. and fromto go forward. and from theto go forward. and from the perspectiveto go forward.

and from the perspective ofand from the perspective of to go forward.and from the perspective of infrastructureand from the perspective of infrastructure andand from the perspective of infrastructure and lookingand from the perspective of infrastructure and looking atinfrastructure and looking at and from the perspective ofinfrastructure and looking at waysinfrastructure and looking at ways thatinfrastructure and looking at

ways that weinfrastructure and looking at ways that we caninfrastructure and looking at ways that we can beinfrastructure and looking at ways that we can be innovativeways that we can be innovative infrastructure and looking atways that we can be innovative toways that we can be innovative to financeways that we can be innovative to finance theways that we can be innovative to finance the necessaryways that we can be innovative

to finance the necessary gasto finance the necessary gas ways that we can be innovativeto finance the necessary gas safetyto finance the necessary gas safety andto finance the necessary gas safety and gasto finance the necessary gas safety and gas infrastructuresafety and gas infrastructure to finance the necessary gassafety and gas infrastructure opportunitiessafety and gas infrastructure opportunities issafety and gas infrastructure

opportunities is criticallyopportunities is critically safety and gas infrastructureopportunities is critically importantopportunities is critically important toopportunities is critically important to theopportunities is critically important to the rateopportunities is critically important to the rate payers,important to the rate payers, opportunities is criticallyimportant to the rate payers, andimportant to the rate payers,

and toimportant to the rate payers, and to usimportant to the rate payers, and to us inimportant to the rate payers, and to us in theimportant to the rate payers, and to us in the state.and to us in the state. important to the rate payers,and to us in the state. soand to us in the state. so iand to us in the state. so i amand to us in the state.

so i am comfortable.so i am comfortable. and to us in the state.so i am comfortable. i doso i am comfortable. i do understandso i am comfortable. i do understand thatso i am comfortable. i do understand that thereso i am comfortable. i do understand that there arei do understand that there are so i am comfortable.i do understand that there are somei do understand that there are

some thingsi do understand that there are some things thati do understand that there are some things that arei do understand that there are some things that are difficultsome things that are difficult i do understand that there aresome things that are difficult assome things that are difficult as wellsome things that are difficult as well assome things that are difficult as well as thingssome things that are difficult

as well as things thatsome things that are difficult as well as things that wesome things that are difficult as well as things that we mayas well as things that we may some things that are difficultas well as things that we may needas well as things that we may need toas well as things that we may need to evenas well as things that we may need to even ifas well as things that we may need to even if weas well as things that we may

need to even if we agreededas well as things that we may need to even if we agreeded toneed to even if we agreeded to as well as things that we mayneed to even if we agreeded to adoptneed to even if we agreeded to adopt theneed to even if we agreeded to adopt the jointneed to even if we agreeded to adopt the joint proposalneed to even if we agreeded to adopt the joint proposal andadopt the joint proposal and need to even if we agreeded toadopt the joint proposal and

thereadopt the joint proposal and there wereadopt the joint proposal and there were someadopt the joint proposal and there were some concernsadopt the joint proposal and there were some concerns thatthere were some concerns that adopt the joint proposal andthere were some concerns that werethere were some concerns that were raisedthere were some concerns that were raised thatthere were some concerns that

were raised that arethere were some concerns that were raised that are validthere were some concerns that were raised that are valid andwere raised that are valid and there were some concerns thatwere raised that are valid and we needwere raised that are valid and we need towere raised that are valid and we need to lookwere raised that are valid and we need to look atwere raised that are valid and we need to look at forwere raised that are valid and

we need to look at for wayswere raised that are valid and we need to look at for ways towe need to look at for ways to were raised that are valid andwe need to look at for ways to minimalizewe need to look at for ways to minimalize thatwe need to look at for ways to minimalize that orwe need to look at for ways to minimalize that or tominimalize that or to we need to look at for ways tominimalize that or to incorporateminimalize that or to

incorporate itminimalize that or to incorporate it andminimalize that or to incorporate it and tominimalize that or to incorporate it and to theminimalize that or to incorporate it and to the extentincorporate it and to the extent minimalize that or toincorporate it and to the extent that thereincorporate it and to the extent that there areincorporate it and to the extent that there are fiveincorporate it and to the extent

that there are five differentthat there are five different incorporate it and to the extentthat there are five different collaborativesthat there are five different collaboratives thatthat there are five different collaboratives that addresscollaboratives that address that there are five differentcollaboratives that address different ongoingcollaboratives that address different ongoing projectscollaboratives that address different ongoing projects ordifferent ongoing projects or

collaboratives that addressdifferent ongoing projects or ongoingdifferent ongoing projects or ongoing issues,different ongoing projects or ongoing issues, it'sdifferent ongoing projects or ongoing issues, it's importantongoing issues, it's important different ongoing projects orongoing issues, it's important forongoing issues, it's important for usongoing issues, it's important for us toongoing issues, it's important

for us to makeongoing issues, it's important for us to make sureongoing issues, it's important for us to make sure thatongoing issues, it's important for us to make sure that theyfor us to make sure that they ongoing issues, it's importantfor us to make sure that they findfor us to make sure that they find theirfor us to make sure that they find their properfor us to make sure that they find their proper homefor us to make sure that they

find their proper home andfor us to make sure that they find their proper home and notfind their proper home and not for us to make sure that theyfind their proper home and not justfind their proper home and not just withfind their proper home and not just with workingfind their proper home and not just with working withfind their proper home and not just with working with thisjust with working with this find their proper home and notjust with working with this

utility,just with working with this utility, butjust with working with this utility, but alsojust with working with this utility, but also asjust with working with this utility, but also as itjust with working with this utility, but also as it relatesutility, but also as it relates just with working with thisutility, but also as it relates toutility, but also as it relates to ongoingutility, but also as it relates

to ongoing initiativesutility, but also as it relates to ongoing initiatives onutility, but also as it relates to ongoing initiatives on ato ongoing initiatives on a utility, but also as it relatesto ongoing initiatives on a statewideto ongoing initiatives on a statewide basisto ongoing initiatives on a statewide basis into ongoing initiatives on a statewide basis in otherstatewide basis in other to ongoing initiatives on astatewide basis in other

proceedingsstatewide basis in other proceedings andstatewide basis in other proceedings and makingstatewide basis in other proceedings and making surestatewide basis in other proceedings and making sure thatproceedings and making sure that statewide basis in otherproceedings and making sure that weproceedings and making sure that we fullyproceedings and making sure that we fully addressproceedings and making sure that

we fully address thoseproceedings and making sure that we fully address those andproceedings and making sure that we fully address those and makewe fully address those and make proceedings and making sure thatwe fully address those and make sure that wewe fully address those and make sure that we havewe fully address those and make sure that we have propersure that we have proper we fully address those and makesure that we have proper staffingsure that we have proper

staffing andsure that we have proper staffing and resourcessure that we have proper staffing and resources dedicatedstaffing and resources dedicated sure that we have properstaffing and resources dedicated tostaffing and resources dedicated to that.to that. staffing and resources dedicatedto that. so thankto that. so thank you.so thank you.

to that.so thank you. >>so thank you. >> michelle?>> michelle? so thank you.>> michelle? >>>> michelle? >> thank>> michelle? >> michelle?>> thank you. i'm>> thank you. i'm going>> thank you.

i'm going to>> thank you. i'm going to ask>> thank you. i'm going to ask a>> thank you. i'm going to ask a question>> thank you. i'm going to ask a question ofi'm going to ask a question of >> thank you.i'm going to ask a question of dorisi'm going to ask a question of doris andi'm going to ask a question of doris and it'si'm going to ask a question of

doris and it's onei'm going to ask a question of doris and it's one ii'm going to ask a question of doris and it's one i alwaysi'm going to ask a question of doris and it's one i always askdoris and it's one i always ask i'm going to ask a question ofdoris and it's one i always ask in adoris and it's one i always ask in a ratedoris and it's one i always ask in a rate casedoris and it's one i always ask in a rate case aboutdoris and it's one i always ask

in a rate case about howdoris and it's one i always ask in a rate case about how thisin a rate case about how this doris and it's one i always askin a rate case about how this jointin a rate case about how this joint proposalin a rate case about how this joint proposal andin a rate case about how this joint proposal and howin a rate case about how this joint proposal and how thejoint proposal and how the in a rate case about how thisjoint proposal and how the

streetjoint proposal and how the street willjoint proposal and how the street will lookjoint proposal and how the street will look atjoint proposal and how the street will look at thisjoint proposal and how the street will look at this ifjoint proposal and how the street will look at this if it'sstreet will look at this if it's joint proposal and how thestreet will look at this if it's approved.approved.

street will look at this if it'sapproved. soapproved. so inapproved. so in anticipationapproved. so in anticipation ofapproved. so in anticipation of yourapproved. so in anticipation of your usualso in anticipation of your usual approved.so in anticipation of your usual questionso in anticipation of your usual

question iso in anticipation of your usual question i hadso in anticipation of your usual question i had myso in anticipation of your usual question i had my staffso in anticipation of your usual question i had my staff doso in anticipation of your usual question i had my staff do aquestion i had my staff do a so in anticipation of your usualquestion i had my staff do a searchquestion i had my staff do a search toquestion i had my staff do a

search to seequestion i had my staff do a search to see whatquestion i had my staff do a search to see what hassearch to see what has question i had my staff do asearch to see what has specificallysearch to see what has specifically beensearch to see what has specifically been statedsearch to see what has specifically been stated inspecifically been stated in search to see what hasspecifically been stated in

variousspecifically been stated in various analystspecifically been stated in various analyst reportsspecifically been stated in various analyst reports aboutvarious analyst reports about specifically been stated invarious analyst reports about thevarious analyst reports about the j.p.various analyst reports about the j.p. andvarious analyst reports about the j.p. and wasn'tvarious analyst reports about

the j.p. and wasn't ablevarious analyst reports about the j.p. and wasn't able tovarious analyst reports about the j.p. and wasn't able to comethe j.p. and wasn't able to come various analyst reports aboutthe j.p. and wasn't able to come upthe j.p. and wasn't able to come up withthe j.p. and wasn't able to come up with much,the j.p. and wasn't able to come up with much, butthe j.p. and wasn't able to come up with much, but asthe j.p. and wasn't able to come

up with much, but as ofthe j.p. and wasn't able to come up with much, but as of lastup with much, but as of last the j.p. and wasn't able to comeup with much, but as of last week,up with much, but as of last week, fitchup with much, but as of last week, fitch didup with much, but as of last week, fitch did issueup with much, but as of last week, fitch did issue theirweek, fitch did issue their up with much, but as of lastweek, fitch did issue their

analysisweek, fitch did issue their analysis ofweek, fitch did issue their analysis of theweek, fitch did issue their analysis of the companiesweek, fitch did issue their analysis of the companies andweek, fitch did issue their analysis of the companies and asanalysis of the companies and as week, fitch did issue theiranalysis of the companies and as theyanalysis of the companies and as they describeanalysis of the companies and as

they describe theanalysis of the companies and as they describe the jointanalysis of the companies and as they describe the joint proposalthey describe the joint proposal analysis of the companies and asthey describe the joint proposal as supportivethey describe the joint proposal as supportive ofthey describe the joint proposal as supportive of creditthey describe the joint proposal as supportive of credit qualityas supportive of credit quality they describe the joint proposalas supportive of credit quality

andas supportive of credit quality and theyas supportive of credit quality and they reaffirmedas supportive of credit quality and they reaffirmed theand they reaffirmed the as supportive of credit qualityand they reaffirmed the company'sand they reaffirmed the company's bondand they reaffirmed the company's bond ratingsand they reaffirmed the company's bond ratings thoughcompany's bond ratings though

and they reaffirmed thecompany's bond ratings though they werecompany's bond ratings though they were concernedcompany's bond ratings though they were concerned aboutcompany's bond ratings though they were concerned about thethey were concerned about the company's bond ratings thoughthey were concerned about the pressurethey were concerned about the pressure onthey were concerned about the pressure on leveragethey were concerned about the

pressure on leverage fromthey were concerned about the pressure on leverage from thepressure on leverage from the they were concerned about thepressure on leverage from the extentpressure on leverage from the extent ofpressure on leverage from the extent of capitalpressure on leverage from the extent of capital investmentextent of capital investment pressure on leverage from theextent of capital investment thatextent of capital investment

that isextent of capital investment that is includedextent of capital investment that is included inextent of capital investment that is included in theextent of capital investment that is included in the jointthat is included in the joint extent of capital investmentthat is included in the joint proposalthat is included in the joint proposal andthat is included in the joint proposal and they'rethat is included in the joint

proposal and they're goingthat is included in the joint proposal and they're going toproposal and they're going to that is included in the jointproposal and they're going to monitorproposal and they're going to monitor this.monitor this. proposal and they're going tomonitor this. somonitor this. so inmonitor this. so in lightmonitor this.

so in light ofmonitor this. so in light of thatmonitor this. so in light of that beingmonitor this. so in light of that being onemonitor this. so in light of that being one ofso in light of that being one of monitor this.so in light of that being one of theso in light of that being one of the fewso in light of that being one of the few references,so in light of that being one of

the few references, iso in light of that being one of the few references, i spentso in light of that being one of the few references, i spent somethe few references, i spent some so in light of that being one ofthe few references, i spent some timethe few references, i spent some time reflectingthe few references, i spent some time reflecting onthe few references, i spent some time reflecting on thethe few references, i spent some time reflecting on the elementstime reflecting on the elements

the few references, i spent sometime reflecting on the elements thattime reflecting on the elements that aretime reflecting on the elements that are intime reflecting on the elements that are in thetime reflecting on the elements that are in the jointtime reflecting on the elements that are in the joint proposal,that are in the joint proposal, time reflecting on the elementsthat are in the joint proposal, andthat are in the joint proposal,

and therethat are in the joint proposal, and there arethat are in the joint proposal, and there are athat are in the joint proposal, and there are a largethat are in the joint proposal, and there are a large numberthat are in the joint proposal, and there are a large number ofand there are a large number of that are in the joint proposal,and there are a large number of goodand there are a large number of good elementsand there are a large number of

good elements inand there are a large number of good elements in theand there are a large number of good elements in the jointgood elements in the joint and there are a large number ofgood elements in the joint proposalgood elements in the joint proposal fromgood elements in the joint proposal from thegood elements in the joint proposal from the investorproposal from the investor good elements in the jointproposal from the investor

standpoint,proposal from the investor standpoint, bothproposal from the investor standpoint, both bondproposal from the investor standpoint, both bond investorsstandpoint, both bond investors proposal from the investorstandpoint, both bond investors andstandpoint, both bond investors and equitystandpoint, both bond investors and equity investors.and equity investors. standpoint, both bond investorsand equity investors.

walland equity investors. wall streetand equity investors. wall street generallyand equity investors. wall street generally viewsand equity investors. wall street generally views ourwall street generally views our and equity investors.wall street generally views our multi-yearwall street generally views our multi-year ratewall street generally views our multi-year rate planswall street generally views our

multi-year rate plans favorablymulti-year rate plans favorably wall street generally views ourmulti-year rate plans favorably becausemulti-year rate plans favorably because theymulti-year rate plans favorably because they eliminatemulti-year rate plans favorably because they eliminate amulti-year rate plans favorably because they eliminate a lotmulti-year rate plans favorably because they eliminate a lot ofbecause they eliminate a lot of multi-year rate plans favorablybecause they eliminate a lot of

thebecause they eliminate a lot of the regulatorybecause they eliminate a lot of the regulatory uncertaintybecause they eliminate a lot of the regulatory uncertainty forthe regulatory uncertainty for because they eliminate a lot ofthe regulatory uncertainty for the termthe regulatory uncertainty for the term ofthe regulatory uncertainty for the term of thethe regulatory uncertainty for the term of the ratethe regulatory uncertainty for

the term of the rate plan.the term of the rate plan. the regulatory uncertainty forthe term of the rate plan. in thisthe term of the rate plan. in this case,the term of the rate plan. in this case, threethe term of the rate plan. in this case, three yearsthe term of the rate plan. in this case, three years andin this case, three years and the term of the rate plan.in this case, three years and duringin this case, three years and

during thatin this case, three years and during that threein this case, three years and during that three yearsin this case, three years and during that three years we'veduring that three years we've in this case, three years andduring that three years we've fixedduring that three years we've fixed theduring that three years we've fixed the r.o.e.during that three years we've fixed the r.o.e. toduring that three years we've

fixed the r.o.e. to 40%during that three years we've fixed the r.o.e. to 40% withduring that three years we've fixed the r.o.e. to 40% with thefixed the r.o.e. to 40% with the during that three years we'vefixed the r.o.e. to 40% with the equityfixed the r.o.e. to 40% with the equity rashfixed the r.o.e. to 40% with the equity rash whyfixed the r.o.e. to 40% with the equity rash why andfixed the r.o.e. to 40% with the equity rash why and testimonyfixed the r.o.e. to 40% with the

equity rash why and testimony onequity rash why and testimony on fixed the r.o.e. to 40% with theequity rash why and testimony on the recordequity rash why and testimony on the record indicatesequity rash why and testimony on the record indicates thatequity rash why and testimony on the record indicates that shouldthe record indicates that should equity rash why and testimony onthe record indicates that should allowthe record indicates that should allow kedlythe record indicates that should

allow kedly tothe record indicates that should allow kedly to maintainthe record indicates that should allow kedly to maintain theirallow kedly to maintain their the record indicates that shouldallow kedly to maintain their investmentallow kedly to maintain their investment gradeallow kedly to maintain their investment grade bondallow kedly to maintain their investment grade bond ratings.investment grade bond ratings. allow kedly to maintain theirinvestment grade bond ratings.

someinvestment grade bond ratings. some ofinvestment grade bond ratings. some of theinvestment grade bond ratings. some of the otherinvestment grade bond ratings. some of the other elementsinvestment grade bond ratings. some of the other elements tosome of the other elements to investment grade bond ratings.some of the other elements to considersome of the other elements to consider issome of the other elements to

consider is thatsome of the other elements to consider is that becausesome of the other elements to consider is that because theconsider is that because the some of the other elements toconsider is that because the j.p.consider is that because the j.p. isconsider is that because the j.p. is basedconsider is that because the j.p. is based onconsider is that because the j.p. is based on --consider is that because the

j.p. is based on -- itconsider is that because the j.p. is based on -- it reflectsj.p. is based on -- it reflects consider is that because thej.p. is based on -- it reflects the forecastj.p. is based on -- it reflects the forecast ofj.p. is based on -- it reflects the forecast of increasedthe forecast of increased j.p. is based on -- it reflectsthe forecast of increased capitalthe forecast of increased capital investmentsthe forecast of increased

capital investments andcapital investments and the forecast of increasedcapital investments and increasingcapital investments and increasing operatingcapital investments and increasing operating budgetscapital investments and increasing operating budgets andincreasing operating budgets and capital investments andincreasing operating budgets and thatincreasing operating budgets and that providesincreasing operating budgets and

that provides theincreasing operating budgets and that provides the reliefincreasing operating budgets and that provides the relief toincreasing operating budgets and that provides the relief to thethat provides the relief to the increasing operating budgets andthat provides the relief to the companiesthat provides the relief to the companies overthat provides the relief to the companies over thethat provides the relief to the companies over the three-yearcompanies over the three-year

that provides the relief to thecompanies over the three-year timecompanies over the three-year time periodcompanies over the three-year time period ensuringcompanies over the three-year time period ensuring theycompanies over the three-year time period ensuring they havetime period ensuring they have companies over the three-yeartime period ensuring they have adequatetime period ensuring they have adequate cashtime period ensuring they have

adequate cash flowstime period ensuring they have adequate cash flows andtime period ensuring they have adequate cash flows and inadequate cash flows and in time period ensuring they haveadequate cash flows and in additionadequate cash flows and in addition toadequate cash flows and in addition to theadequate cash flows and in addition to the chargesaddition to the charges adequate cash flows and inaddition to the charges

mentionedaddition to the charges mentioned itaddition to the charges mentioned it isaddition to the charges mentioned it is toaddition to the charges mentioned it is to captureaddition to the charges mentioned it is to capture thementioned it is to capture the addition to the chargesmentioned it is to capture the increasesmentioned it is to capture the increases inmentioned it is to capture the

increases in thementioned it is to capture the increases in the sirmentioned it is to capture the increases in the sir costsincreases in the sir costs mentioned it is to capture theincreases in the sir costs relatedincreases in the sir costs related toincreases in the sir costs related to kiwanisincreases in the sir costs related to kiwanis andincreases in the sir costs related to kiwanis and newtown.related to kiwanis and newtown.

increases in the sir costsrelated to kiwanis and newtown. andrelated to kiwanis and newtown. and thatrelated to kiwanis and newtown. and that typerelated to kiwanis and newtown. and that type ofrelated to kiwanis and newtown. and that type of surchargeand that type of surcharge related to kiwanis and newtown.and that type of surcharge mechanismand that type of surcharge mechanism ifand that type of surcharge

mechanism if it'sand that type of surcharge mechanism if it's triggeredand that type of surcharge mechanism if it's triggered willmechanism if it's triggered will and that type of surchargemechanism if it's triggered will providemechanism if it's triggered will provide additionalmechanism if it's triggered will provide additional cashmechanism if it's triggered will provide additional cash flowprovide additional cash flow mechanism if it's triggered willprovide additional cash flow

reliefprovide additional cash flow relief toprovide additional cash flow relief to theprovide additional cash flow relief to the companiesprovide additional cash flow relief to the companies inprovide additional cash flow relief to the companies in arelief to the companies in a provide additional cash flowrelief to the companies in a timelyrelief to the companies in a timely fashion.timely fashion.

relief to the companies in atimely fashion. lastly,timely fashion. lastly, ourtimely fashion. lastly, our jointtimely fashion. lastly, our joint proposalstimely fashion. lastly, our joint proposals havelastly, our joint proposals have timely fashion.lastly, our joint proposals have a lotlastly, our joint proposals have a lot oflastly, our joint proposals have

a lot of reconciliationa lot of reconciliation lastly, our joint proposals havea lot of reconciliation mechanismsa lot of reconciliation mechanisms anda lot of reconciliation mechanisms and reducea lot of reconciliation mechanisms and reduce thea lot of reconciliation mechanisms and reduce the risksmechanisms and reduce the risks a lot of reconciliationmechanisms and reduce the risks tomechanisms and reduce the risks

to thesemechanisms and reduce the risks to these companiesmechanisms and reduce the risks to these companies somechanisms and reduce the risks to these companies so themechanisms and reduce the risks to these companies so the r.o.e.to these companies so the r.o.e. mechanisms and reduce the risksto these companies so the r.o.e. and theto these companies so the r.o.e. and the equityto these companies so the r.o.e. and the equity ratioto these companies so the r.o.e.

and the equity ratio areand the equity ratio are to these companies so the r.o.e.and the equity ratio are appropriateand the equity ratio are appropriate inand the equity ratio are appropriate in lightand the equity ratio are appropriate in light ofand the equity ratio are appropriate in light of thoseappropriate in light of those and the equity ratio areappropriate in light of those elements,appropriate in light of those

elements, andappropriate in light of those elements, and iappropriate in light of those elements, and i thinkappropriate in light of those elements, and i think thatappropriate in light of those elements, and i think that theelements, and i think that the appropriate in light of thoseelements, and i think that the j.p.elements, and i think that the j.p. allowselements, and i think that the j.p. allows theelements, and i think that the

j.p. allows the keystonej.p. allows the keystone elements, and i think that thej.p. allows the keystone companiesj.p. allows the keystone companies toj.p. allows the keystone companies to stayj.p. allows the keystone companies to stay atj.p. allows the keystone companies to stay at thecompanies to stay at the j.p. allows the keystonecompanies to stay at the forefrontcompanies to stay at the

forefront ofcompanies to stay at the forefront of allcompanies to stay at the forefront of all ofcompanies to stay at the forefront of all of theseforefront of all of these companies to stay at theforefront of all of these innovationsforefront of all of these innovations andforefront of all of these innovations and theforefront of all of these innovations and the capitalinnovations and the capital

forefront of all of theseinnovations and the capital investmentsinnovations and the capital investments andinnovations and the capital investments and theyinnovations and the capital investments and they haveinnovations and the capital investments and they have beeninvestments and they have been innovations and the capitalinvestments and they have been sentinvestments and they have been sent mechanismsinvestments and they have been

sent mechanisms toinvestments and they have been sent mechanisms to reduceinvestments and they have been sent mechanisms to reduce leakedsent mechanisms to reduce leaked investments and they have beensent mechanisms to reduce leaked backlogssent mechanisms to reduce leaked backlogs andsent mechanisms to reduce leaked backlogs and increasesent mechanisms to reduce leaked backlogs and increase thebacklogs and increase the sent mechanisms to reduce leakedbacklogs and increase the

numbersbacklogs and increase the numbers ofbacklogs and increase the numbers of milesbacklogs and increase the numbers of miles ofbacklogs and increase the numbers of miles of pipebacklogs and increase the numbers of miles of pipe whilenumbers of miles of pipe while backlogs and increase thenumbers of miles of pipe while reducingnumbers of miles of pipe while reducing thenumbers of miles of pipe while

reducing the costnumbers of miles of pipe while reducing the cost pernumbers of miles of pipe while reducing the cost per milenumbers of miles of pipe while reducing the cost per mile andreducing the cost per mile and numbers of miles of pipe whilereducing the cost per mile and otherreducing the cost per mile and other infrastructureother infrastructure reducing the cost per mile andother infrastructure enhancementsother infrastructure

enhancements andother infrastructure enhancements and otherother infrastructure enhancements and other incentiveenhancements and other incentive other infrastructureenhancements and other incentive mechanismsenhancements and other incentive mechanisms forenhancements and other incentive mechanisms for terminationsenhancements and other incentive mechanisms for terminations andmechanisms for terminations and enhancements and other incentivemechanisms for terminations and

uncollectiblesmechanisms for terminations and uncollectibles andmechanisms for terminations and uncollectibles and theremechanisms for terminations and uncollectibles and there aremechanisms for terminations and uncollectibles and there are auncollectibles and there are a mechanisms for terminations anduncollectibles and there are a lotuncollectibles and there are a lot ofuncollectibles and there are a lot of gooduncollectibles and there are a

lot of good elementsuncollectibles and there are a lot of good elements inuncollectibles and there are a lot of good elements in thislot of good elements in this uncollectibles and there are alot of good elements in this jointlot of good elements in this joint proposallot of good elements in this joint proposal andlot of good elements in this joint proposal and somebodyjoint proposal and somebody lot of good elements in thisjoint proposal and somebody

investingjoint proposal and somebody investing injoint proposal and somebody investing in thejoint proposal and somebody investing in the companiesjoint proposal and somebody investing in the companies willinvesting in the companies will joint proposal and somebodyinvesting in the companies will takeinvesting in the companies will take comfort.take comfort. investing in the companies willtake comfort.

>>take comfort. >> thanktake comfort. take comfort.>> thank you. >> cindy,>> thank you. >> cindy, just>> thank you. >> cindy, just for>> thank you. >> cindy, just for you,>> thank you. >> cindy, just for you, because>> cindy, just for you, because >> thank you.>> cindy, just for you, because

leak-prone>> cindy, just for you, because leak-prone pipe>> cindy, just for you, because leak-prone pipe has>> cindy, just for you, because leak-prone pipe has been>> cindy, just for you, because leak-prone pipe has been reallyleak-prone pipe has been really >> cindy, just for you, becauseleak-prone pipe has been really onleak-prone pipe has been really on theleak-prone pipe has been really on the radarleak-prone pipe has been really

on the radar latelyleak-prone pipe has been really on the radar lately andleak-prone pipe has been really on the radar lately and theon the radar lately and the leak-prone pipe has been reallyon the radar lately and the judgeon the radar lately and the judge explainedon the radar lately and the judge explained thison the radar lately and the judge explained this ison the radar lately and the judge explained this is anjudge explained this is an

on the radar lately and thejudge explained this is an aggressivejudge explained this is an aggressive programjudge explained this is an aggressive program tojudge explained this is an aggressive program to replaceaggressive program to replace judge explained this is anaggressive program to replace someaggressive program to replace some ofaggressive program to replace some of theaggressive program to replace

some of the oldaggressive program to replace some of the old piping,aggressive program to replace some of the old piping, howaggressive program to replace some of the old piping, how doessome of the old piping, how does aggressive program to replacesome of the old piping, how does thissome of the old piping, how does this measuresome of the old piping, how does this measure up,some of the old piping, how does this measure up, thissome of the old piping, how does

this measure up, this proposalthis measure up, this proposal some of the old piping, how doesthis measure up, this proposal withthis measure up, this proposal with regardthis measure up, this proposal with regard tothis measure up, this proposal with regard to whatthis measure up, this proposal with regard to what otherwith regard to what other this measure up, this proposalwith regard to what other companieswith regard to what other

companies arewith regard to what other companies are doing?companies are doing? with regard to what othercompanies are doing? >>companies are doing? >> yeah.>> yeah. companies are doing?>> yeah. these>> yeah. these numbers>> yeah. these numbers especially>> yeah.

these numbers especially for>> yeah. these numbers especially for thethese numbers especially for the >> yeah.these numbers especially for the nationalthese numbers especially for the national gridthese numbers especially for the national grid longthese numbers especially for the national grid long islandthese numbers especially for the national grid long island kedlynational grid long island kedly these numbers especially for thenational grid long island kedly

arenational grid long island kedly are highernational grid long island kedly are higher thannational grid long island kedly are higher than othernational grid long island kedly are higher than other utilities.are higher than other utilities. national grid long island kedlyare higher than other utilities. theare higher than other utilities. the numbersare higher than other utilities. the numbers areare higher than other utilities.

the numbers are aboutare higher than other utilities. the numbers are about theare higher than other utilities. the numbers are about the samethe numbers are about the same are higher than other utilities.the numbers are about the same ballparkthe numbers are about the same ballpark asthe numbers are about the same ballpark as athe numbers are about the same ballpark as a fewthe numbers are about the same ballpark as a few otherballpark as a few other

the numbers are about the sameballpark as a few other utilities,ballpark as a few other utilities, butballpark as a few other utilities, but nationalballpark as a few other utilities, but national gridutilities, but national grid ballpark as a few otherutilities, but national grid longutilities, but national grid long islandutilities, but national grid long island hasutilities, but national grid

long island has theutilities, but national grid long island has the biggestlong island has the biggest utilities, but national gridlong island has the biggest inventorylong island has the biggest inventory oflong island has the biggest inventory of alllong island has the biggest inventory of all oflong island has the biggest inventory of all of thelong island has the biggest inventory of all of the statesinventory of all of the states

long island has the biggestinventory of all of the states and theinventory of all of the states and the gasinventory of all of the states and the gas utilityinventory of all of the states and the gas utility andinventory of all of the states and the gas utility and theyand the gas utility and they inventory of all of the statesand the gas utility and they haveand the gas utility and they have aand the gas utility and they

have a lotand the gas utility and they have a lot ofand the gas utility and they have a lot of workand the gas utility and they have a lot of work toand the gas utility and they have a lot of work to do.have a lot of work to do. and the gas utility and theyhave a lot of work to do. >>have a lot of work to do. >> thankhave a lot of work to do. have a lot of work to do.>> thank you.

i>> thank you. i think,>> thank you. i think, for>> thank you. i think, for the>> thank you. i think, for the record,>> thank you. i think, for the record, andi think, for the record, and >> thank you.i think, for the record, and paul,i think, for the record, and paul, youi think, for the record, and

paul, you cani think, for the record, and paul, you can correcti think, for the record, and paul, you can correct mei think, for the record, and paul, you can correct me ifi think, for the record, and paul, you can correct me if i'mpaul, you can correct me if i'm i think, for the record, andpaul, you can correct me if i'm wrong,paul, you can correct me if i'm wrong, butpaul, you can correct me if i'm wrong, but thepaul, you can correct me if i'm

wrong, but the reasonpaul, you can correct me if i'm wrong, but the reason whypaul, you can correct me if i'm wrong, but the reason why thesewrong, but the reason why these paul, you can correct me if i'mwrong, but the reason why these companieswrong, but the reason why these companies havewrong, but the reason why these companies have notwrong, but the reason why these companies have not beenwrong, but the reason why these companies have not been inwrong, but the reason why these

companies have not been in wascompanies have not been in was wrong, but the reason why thesecompanies have not been in was becausecompanies have not been in was because ofcompanies have not been in was because of thecompanies have not been in was because of the agreementcompanies have not been in was because of the agreement incompanies have not been in was because of the agreement in thebecause of the agreement in the companies have not been in wasbecause of the agreement in the

keyspanbecause of the agreement in the keyspan gridbecause of the agreement in the keyspan grid merger.keyspan grid merger. because of the agreement in thekeyspan grid merger. >>keyspan grid merger. >> ikeyspan grid merger. >> i maykeyspan grid merger. >> i may havekeyspan grid merger. >> i may have beenkeyspan grid merger.

>> i may have been akeyspan grid merger. >> i may have been a staff>> i may have been a staff keyspan grid merger.>> i may have been a staff counsel.counsel. >> i may have been a staffcounsel. you may have been and that'swhen we really did quite a numberwhen we really did quite a number onwhen we really did quite a number on thewhen we really did quite a

number on the j.p.number on the j.p. when we really did quite anumber on the j.p. >>number on the j.p. >> butnumber on the j.p. >> but wenumber on the j.p. >> but we setnumber on the j.p. >> but we set upnumber on the j.p. >> but we set up anumber on the j.p. >> but we set up a plannumber on the j.p.

>> but we set up a plan thatnumber on the j.p. >> but we set up a plan that was>> but we set up a plan that was number on the j.p.>> but we set up a plan that was designed>> but we set up a plan that was designed to>> but we set up a plan that was designed to be>> but we set up a plan that was designed to be durable>> but we set up a plan that was designed to be durable over>> but we set up a plan that was designed to be durable over manydesigned to be durable over many

>> but we set up a plan that wasdesigned to be durable over many years.years. designed to be durable over manyyears. >>years. >> right.>> right. years.>> right. >>>> right. >> with>> right. >> with revenue>> right.

>> with revenue sharing>> right. >> with revenue sharing and>> with revenue sharing and >> right.>> with revenue sharing and stuff>> with revenue sharing and stuff like>> with revenue sharing and stuff like that>> with revenue sharing and stuff like that to>> with revenue sharing and stuff like that to keep>> with revenue sharing and stuff like that to keep themstuff like that to keep them

>> with revenue sharing andstuff like that to keep them out.out. stuff like that to keep themout. >>out. out.>> right. i>> right. i just>> right. i just wanted>> right. i just wanted that>> right.

i just wanted that for>> right. i just wanted that for thei just wanted that for the >> right.i just wanted that for the recordi just wanted that for the record becausei just wanted that for the record because normallyi just wanted that for the record because normally anyrecord because normally any i just wanted that for therecord because normally any commissionrecord because normally any

commission thatrecord because normally any commission that hasrecord because normally any commission that has servedrecord because normally any commission that has served herecommission that has served here record because normally anycommission that has served here wouldcommission that has served here would rathercommission that has served here would rather seecommission that has served here would rather see multi-yearcommission that has served here

would rather see multi-year ratewould rather see multi-year rate commission that has served herewould rather see multi-year rate casewould rather see multi-year rate case andwould rather see multi-year rate case and ratherwould rather see multi-year rate case and rather notwould rather see multi-year rate case and rather not havewould rather see multi-year rate case and rather not have acase and rather not have a would rather see multi-year ratecase and rather not have a

companycase and rather not have a company staycase and rather not have a company stay outcase and rather not have a company stay out thatcase and rather not have a company stay out that long.company stay out that long. case and rather not have acompany stay out that long. and itcompany stay out that long. and it workscompany stay out that long. and it works better,company stay out that long.

and it works better, it'scompany stay out that long. and it works better, it's moreand it works better, it's more company stay out that long.and it works better, it's more efficientand it works better, it's more efficient andand it works better, it's more efficient and worksand it works better, it's more efficient and works welland it works better, it's more efficient and works well forand it works better, it's more efficient and works well for theefficient and works well for the

and it works better, it's moreefficient and works well for the companyefficient and works well for the company andefficient and works well for the company and theefficient and works well for the company and the rateefficient and works well for the company and the rate payersefficient and works well for the company and the rate payers thatcompany and the rate payers that efficient and works well for thecompany and the rate payers that arecompany and the rate payers that

are outcompany and the rate payers that are out there.are out there. company and the rate payers thatare out there. youare out there. you know,are out there. you know, whenare out there. you know, when youare out there. you know, when you comeare out there. you know, when you come intoare out there.

you know, when you come into theyou know, when you come into the are out there.you know, when you come into the every floor may have one andit's a mission statement and the missionit's a mission statement and the mission statementit's a mission statement and the mission statement saysit's a mission statement and the mission statement says thatit's a mission statement and the mission statement says that ourmission statement says that our it's a mission statement and themission statement says that our

jobmission statement says that our job ismission statement says that our job is tomission statement says that our job is to delivermission statement says that our job is to deliver safemission statement says that our job is to deliver safe andjob is to deliver safe and mission statement says that ourjob is to deliver safe and reliablejob is to deliver safe and reliable servicesjob is to deliver safe and

reliable services atjob is to deliver safe and reliable services at ajob is to deliver safe and reliable services at a justjob is to deliver safe and reliable services at a just andreliable services at a just and job is to deliver safe andreliable services at a just and reasonablereliable services at a just and reasonable costreliable services at a just and reasonable cost andreliable services at a just and reasonable cost and noreliable services at a just and

reasonable cost and no onereliable services at a just and reasonable cost and no one takesreasonable cost and no one takes reliable services at a just andreasonable cost and no one takes thatreasonable cost and no one takes that forreasonable cost and no one takes that for granted.that for granted. reasonable cost and no one takesthat for granted. it'sthat for granted. it's importantthat for granted.

it's important tothat for granted. it's important to everyonethat for granted. it's important to everyone andit's important to everyone and that for granted.it's important to everyone and theit's important to everyone and the balancingit's important to everyone and the balancing actit's important to everyone and the balancing act thatit's important to everyone and the balancing act that weit's important to everyone and

the balancing act that we havethe balancing act that we have it's important to everyone andthe balancing act that we have here,the balancing act that we have here, andthe balancing act that we have here, and so,the balancing act that we have here, and so, yes,the balancing act that we have here, and so, yes, there'sthe balancing act that we have here, and so, yes, there's goinghere, and so, yes, there's going the balancing act that we havehere, and so, yes, there's going

tohere, and so, yes, there's going to behere, and so, yes, there's going to be peoplehere, and so, yes, there's going to be people whohere, and so, yes, there's going to be people who arehere, and so, yes, there's going to be people who are goinghere, and so, yes, there's going to be people who are going tohere, and so, yes, there's going to be people who are going to beto be people who are going to be here, and so, yes, there's goingto be people who are going to be

pleasedto be people who are going to be pleased withto be people who are going to be pleased with itto be people who are going to be pleased with it andto be people who are going to be pleased with it and thereto be people who are going to be pleased with it and there arepleased with it and there are to be people who are going to bepleased with it and there are going to be peoplepleased with it and there are going to be people whopleased with it and there are

going to be people who arepleased with it and there are going to be people who are notgoing to be people who are not pleased with it and there aregoing to be people who are not pleased with it and that'sgoing to be people who are not pleased with it and that's partpleased with it and that's part going to be people who are notpleased with it and that's part ofpleased with it and that's part of thepleased with it and that's part of the balancingpleased with it and that's part

of the balancing actpleased with it and that's part of the balancing act thatpleased with it and that's part of the balancing act that weof the balancing act that we pleased with it and that's partof the balancing act that we needof the balancing act that we need toof the balancing act that we need to doof the balancing act that we need to do hereof the balancing act that we need to do here andof the balancing act that we

need to do here and becauseof the balancing act that we need to do here and because weneed to do here and because we of the balancing act that weneed to do here and because we areneed to do here and because we are requiredneed to do here and because we are required byneed to do here and because we are required by lawneed to do here and because we are required by law toneed to do here and because we are required by law to doare required by law to do

need to do here and because weare required by law to do certainare required by law to do certain things.certain things. are required by law to docertain things. i'mcertain things. i'm happy,certain things. i'm happy, andcertain things. i'm happy, and icertain things. i'm happy, and i thinkcertain things.

i'm happy, and i think thatcertain things. i'm happy, and i think that thei'm happy, and i think that the certain things.i'm happy, and i think that the lowi'm happy, and i think that the low incomei'm happy, and i think that the low income proposali'm happy, and i think that the low income proposal isi'm happy, and i think that the low income proposal is ai'm happy, and i think that the low income proposal is a decentlow income proposal is a decent

i'm happy, and i think that thelow income proposal is a decent one,low income proposal is a decent one, andlow income proposal is a decent one, and ilow income proposal is a decent one, and i supportlow income proposal is a decent one, and i support thatlow income proposal is a decent one, and i support that andlow income proposal is a decent one, and i support that and it'sone, and i support that and it's low income proposal is a decentone, and i support that and it's

alsoone, and i support that and it's also somethingone, and i support that and it's also something thatone, and i support that and it's also something that weone, and i support that and it's also something that we don'talso something that we don't one, and i support that and it'salso something that we don't takealso something that we don't take foralso something that we don't take for granted.take for granted.

also something that we don'ttake for granted. we don't throwtake for granted. we don't throw aroundtake for granted. we don't throw around otherwe don't throw around other take for granted.we don't throw around other people'swe don't throw around other people's moneywe don't throw around other people's money tryingwe don't throw around other people's money trying towe don't throw around other

people's money trying to helppeople's money trying to help we don't throw around otherpeople's money trying to help everyonepeople's money trying to help everyone else.everyone else. people's money trying to helpeveryone else. theeveryone else. the staffeveryone else. the staff iseveryone else. the staff is alwayseveryone else.

the staff is always oneveryone else. the staff is always on topeveryone else. the staff is always on top ofthe staff is always on top of everyone else.the staff is always on top of thisthe staff is always on top of this andthe staff is always on top of this and makingthe staff is always on top of this and making surethe staff is always on top of this and making sure ourthis and making sure our

the staff is always on top ofthis and making sure our consumerthis and making sure our consumer servicesthis and making sure our consumer services officethis and making sure our consumer services office inconsumer services office in this and making sure ourconsumer services office in dealingconsumer services office in dealing withconsumer services office in dealing with lowconsumer services office in

dealing with low incomeconsumer services office in dealing with low income folksdealing with low income folks consumer services office indealing with low income folks anddealing with low income folks and makingdealing with low income folks and making suredealing with low income folks and making sure everythingdealing with low income folks and making sure everything isand making sure everything is dealing with low income folksand making sure everything is

doneand making sure everything is done inand making sure everything is done in theand making sure everything is done in the properand making sure everything is done in the proper fashion,and making sure everything is done in the proper fashion, anddone in the proper fashion, and and making sure everything isdone in the proper fashion, and whendone in the proper fashion, and when wedone in the proper fashion, and

when we godone in the proper fashion, and when we go todone in the proper fashion, and when we go to thedone in the proper fashion, and when we go to the s.i.r.,done in the proper fashion, and when we go to the s.i.r., thiswhen we go to the s.i.r., this done in the proper fashion, andwhen we go to the s.i.r., this iswhen we go to the s.i.r., this is something,when we go to the s.i.r., this is something, ifwhen we go to the s.i.r., this

is something, if youwhen we go to the s.i.r., this is something, if you rememberis something, if you remember when we go to the s.i.r., thisis something, if you remember commissioneris something, if you remember commissioner lais something, if you remember commissioner la roccais something, if you remember commissioner la rocca whenis something, if you remember commissioner la rocca when hecommissioner la rocca when he is something, if you remembercommissioner la rocca when he

wascommissioner la rocca when he was here.was here. commissioner la rocca when hewas here. he andwas here. he and iwas here. he and i spentwas here. he and i spent weekswas here. he and i spent weeks tryingwas here. he and i spent weeks trying tohe and i spent weeks trying to

was here.he and i spent weeks trying to figurehe and i spent weeks trying to figure outhe and i spent weeks trying to figure out ifhe and i spent weeks trying to figure out if therehe and i spent weeks trying to figure out if there washe and i spent weeks trying to figure out if there was anotherfigure out if there was another he and i spent weeks trying tofigure out if there was another wayfigure out if there was another

way thatfigure out if there was another way that wefigure out if there was another way that we canfigure out if there was another way that we can getfigure out if there was another way that we can get aroundfigure out if there was another way that we can get around thisway that we can get around this figure out if there was anotherway that we can get around this becauseway that we can get around this because it'sway that we can get around this

because it's brutalway that we can get around this because it's brutal andway that we can get around this because it's brutal and itway that we can get around this because it's brutal and it hurtsbecause it's brutal and it hurts way that we can get around thisbecause it's brutal and it hurts andbecause it's brutal and it hurts and itbecause it's brutal and it hurts and it wasbecause it's brutal and it hurts and it was somethingbecause it's brutal and it hurts

and it was something thatbecause it's brutal and it hurts and it was something that wasand it was something that was because it's brutal and it hurtsand it was something that was doneand it was something that was done inand it was something that was done in theand it was something that was done in the pastand it was something that was done in the past andand it was something that was done in the past and asand it was something that was

done in the past and as thedone in the past and as the and it was something that wasdone in the past and as the chairdone in the past and as the chair quitedone in the past and as the chair quite eloquentlydone in the past and as the chair quite eloquently stated.chair quite eloquently stated. done in the past and as thechair quite eloquently stated. wechair quite eloquently stated. we nowchair quite eloquently stated.

we now havechair quite eloquently stated. we now have tochair quite eloquently stated. we now have to paychair quite eloquently stated. we now have to pay forchair quite eloquently stated. we now have to pay for thewe now have to pay for the chair quite eloquently stated.we now have to pay for the mistakeswe now have to pay for the mistakes ofwe now have to pay for the mistakes of thosewe now have to pay for the

mistakes of those inwe now have to pay for the mistakes of those in thewe now have to pay for the mistakes of those in the pastmistakes of those in the past we now have to pay for themistakes of those in the past andmistakes of those in the past and fortunatelymistakes of those in the past and fortunately inmistakes of those in the past and fortunately in themistakes of those in the past and fortunately in the kiwanisand fortunately in the kiwanis

mistakes of those in the pastand fortunately in the kiwanis thatand fortunately in the kiwanis that we'reand fortunately in the kiwanis that we're tryingand fortunately in the kiwanis that we're trying toand fortunately in the kiwanis that we're trying to identifythat we're trying to identify and fortunately in the kiwanisthat we're trying to identify thesethat we're trying to identify these otherthat we're trying to identify

these other partiesthat we're trying to identify these other parties whothat we're trying to identify these other parties who arethese other parties who are that we're trying to identifythese other parties who are stillthese other parties who are still around,these other parties who are still around, butthese other parties who are still around, but ithese other parties who are still around, but i canthese other parties who are

still around, but i can rememberstill around, but i can remember these other parties who arestill around, but i can remember asstill around, but i can remember as astill around, but i can remember as a kidstill around, but i can remember as a kid goingstill around, but i can remember as a kid going onstill around, but i can remember as a kid going on thestill around, but i can remember as a kid going on the beltas a kid going on the belt

still around, but i can rememberas a kid going on the belt parkwayas a kid going on the belt parkway andas a kid going on the belt parkway and crossingas a kid going on the belt parkway and crossing theas a kid going on the belt parkway and crossing the canalparkway and crossing the canal as a kid going on the beltparkway and crossing the canal andparkway and crossing the canal and goingparkway and crossing the canal

and going toparkway and crossing the canal and going to newparkway and crossing the canal and going to new jerseyparkway and crossing the canal and going to new jersey toparkway and crossing the canal and going to new jersey to visitand going to new jersey to visit parkway and crossing the canaland going to new jersey to visit myand going to new jersey to visit my father'sand going to new jersey to visit my father's relatives.my father's relatives.

and going to new jersey to visitmy father's relatives. it lookedmy father's relatives. it looked likemy father's relatives. it looked like amy father's relatives. it looked like a messmy father's relatives. it looked like a mess then,my father's relatives. it looked like a mess then, andit looked like a mess then, and my father's relatives.it looked like a mess then, and thatit looked like a mess then, and

that wasit looked like a mess then, and that was ait looked like a mess then, and that was a longit looked like a mess then, and that was a long timeit looked like a mess then, and that was a long time ago,it looked like a mess then, and that was a long time ago, andit looked like a mess then, and that was a long time ago, and sothat was a long time ago, and so it looked like a mess then, andthat was a long time ago, and so hopefullythat was a long time ago, and so

hopefully thisthat was a long time ago, and so hopefully this willthat was a long time ago, and so hopefully this will finallythat was a long time ago, and so hopefully this will finally gethopefully this will finally get that was a long time ago, and sohopefully this will finally get somehopefully this will finally get some resolvehopefully this will finally get some resolve tohopefully this will finally get some resolve to thehopefully this will finally get

some resolve to the peoplehopefully this will finally get some resolve to the people whosome resolve to the people who hopefully this will finally getsome resolve to the people who livesome resolve to the people who live aroundsome resolve to the people who live around thatsome resolve to the people who live around that area.live around that area. some resolve to the people wholive around that area. it'slive around that area.

it's anlive around that area. it's an eyesore.it's an eyesore. live around that area.it's an eyesore. it'sit's an eyesore. it's anit's an eyesore. it's an environmentalit's an eyesore. it's an environmental hazard,it's an environmental hazard, it's an eyesore.it's an environmental hazard, andit's an environmental hazard,

and iit's an environmental hazard, and i wouldit's an environmental hazard, and i would hopeit's an environmental hazard, and i would hope thatit's an environmental hazard, and i would hope that ourit's an environmental hazard, and i would hope that our peopleand i would hope that our people it's an environmental hazard,and i would hope that our people andand i would hope that our people and theand i would hope that our people

and the departmentand i would hope that our people and the department willand i would hope that our people and the department will leanand i would hope that our people and the department will lean onand the department will lean on and i would hope that our peopleand the department will lean on alland the department will lean on all ofand the department will lean on all of theand the department will lean on all of the fedsand the department will lean on

all of the feds andand the department will lean on all of the feds and alland the department will lean on all of the feds and all ofand the department will lean on all of the feds and all of theall of the feds and all of the and the department will lean onall of the feds and all of the partiesall of the feds and all of the parties toall of the feds and all of the parties to getall of the feds and all of the parties to get thisall of the feds and all of the

parties to get this thingall of the feds and all of the parties to get this thing goingparties to get this thing going all of the feds and all of theparties to get this thing going soparties to get this thing going so thatparties to get this thing going so that weparties to get this thing going so that we canparties to get this thing going so that we can seeparties to get this thing going so that we can see someparties to get this thing going

so that we can see some resolveso that we can see some resolve parties to get this thing goingso that we can see some resolve downso that we can see some resolve down theso that we can see some resolve down the road.down the road. so that we can see some resolvedown the road. indown the road. in thedown the road. in the j.p.down the road.

in the j.p. youdown the road. in the j.p. you statedown the road. in the j.p. you state somein the j.p. you state some down the road.in the j.p. you state some numbersin the j.p. you state some numbers within the j.p. you state some numbers with regardin the j.p. you state some numbers with regard toin the j.p. you state some numbers with regard to seeingin the j.p. you state some

numbers with regard to seeing annumbers with regard to seeing an in the j.p. you state somenumbers with regard to seeing an endnumbers with regard to seeing an end tonumbers with regard to seeing an end to s.i.r.numbers with regard to seeing an end to s.i.r. downnumbers with regard to seeing an end to s.i.r. down thenumbers with regard to seeing an end to s.i.r. down the roadend to s.i.r. down the road numbers with regard to seeing anend to s.i.r. down the road

whichend to s.i.r. down the road which iend to s.i.r. down the road which i think,end to s.i.r. down the road which i think, youend to s.i.r. down the road which i think, you know,end to s.i.r. down the road which i think, you know, isend to s.i.r. down the road which i think, you know, is verywhich i think, you know, is very end to s.i.r. down the roadwhich i think, you know, is very hopefulwhich i think, you know, is very

hopeful becausewhich i think, you know, is very hopeful because nowhich i think, you know, is very hopeful because no onewhich i think, you know, is very hopeful because no one wantswhich i think, you know, is very hopeful because no one wants tohopeful because no one wants to which i think, you know, is veryhopeful because no one wants to payhopeful because no one wants to pay forhopeful because no one wants to pay for thehopeful because no one wants to

pay for the mistakeshopeful because no one wants to pay for the mistakes ofhopeful because no one wants to pay for the mistakes of thepay for the mistakes of the hopeful because no one wants topay for the mistakes of the past.past. pay for the mistakes of thepast. the peoplepast. the people ofpast. the people of thepast.

the people of the statepast. the people of the state ofpast. the people of the state of newthe people of the state of new past.the people of the state of new yorkthe people of the state of new york arethe people of the state of new york are smartthe people of the state of new york are smart enoughthe people of the state of new york are smart enough andthe people of the state of new

york are smart enough and wantyork are smart enough and want the people of the state of newyork are smart enough and want toyork are smart enough and want to theyork are smart enough and want to the leaveyork are smart enough and want to the leave ayork are smart enough and want to the leave a betterto the leave a better york are smart enough and wantto the leave a better environmentto the leave a better

environment forto the leave a better environment for theto the leave a better environment for the generationsenvironment for the generations to the leave a betterenvironment for the generations to follow.to follow. environment for the generationsto follow. asto follow. as ito follow. as i saidto follow.

as i said before,to follow. as i said before, thereto follow. as i said before, there isto follow. as i said before, there is ato follow. as i said before, there is a lotas i said before, there is a lot to follow.as i said before, there is a lot ofas i said before, there is a lot of goodas i said before, there is a lot of good thingsas i said before, there is a lot

of good things hereas i said before, there is a lot of good things here andas i said before, there is a lot of good things here and thereof good things here and there as i said before, there is a lotof good things here and there areof good things here and there are thingsof good things here and there are things thatof good things here and there are things that areof good things here and there are things that are notof good things here and there

are things that are not asof good things here and there are things that are not as goodare things that are not as good of good things here and thereare things that are not as good asare things that are not as good as youare things that are not as good as you wouldare things that are not as good as you would wantare things that are not as good as you would want themare things that are not as good as you would want them toare things that are not as good

as you would want them to be,as you would want them to be, are things that are not as goodas you would want them to be, butas you would want them to be, but inas you would want them to be, but in balance,as you would want them to be, but in balance, itas you would want them to be, but in balance, it doesas you would want them to be, but in balance, it does meetas you would want them to be, but in balance, it does meet ourbut in balance, it does meet our

as you would want them to be,but in balance, it does meet our responsibilitybut in balance, it does meet our responsibility forbut in balance, it does meet our responsibility for deliveringresponsibility for delivering but in balance, it does meet ourresponsibility for delivering andresponsibility for delivering and makingresponsibility for delivering and making sureresponsibility for delivering and making sure theresponsibility for delivering

and making sure the companiesand making sure the companies responsibility for deliveringand making sure the companies deliver safeand making sure the companies deliver safe andand making sure the companies deliver safe and reliabledeliver safe and reliable and making sure the companiesdeliver safe and reliable servicedeliver safe and reliable service atdeliver safe and reliable service at adeliver safe and reliable

service at a justdeliver safe and reliable service at a just anddeliver safe and reliable service at a just and reasonableservice at a just and reasonable deliver safe and reliableservice at a just and reasonable costservice at a just and reasonable cost andservice at a just and reasonable cost and forservice at a just and reasonable cost and for thoseservice at a just and reasonable cost and for those reasonscost and for those reasons

service at a just and reasonablecost and for those reasons statedcost and for those reasons stated icost and for those reasons stated i willcost and for those reasons stated i will becost and for those reasons stated i will be votingcost and for those reasons stated i will be voting incost and for those reasons stated i will be voting in thestated i will be voting in the cost and for those reasonsstated i will be voting in the

affirmative.affirmative. stated i will be voting in theaffirmative. >>affirmative. >> thankaffirmative. affirmative.>> thank you. i'm going to move>> thank you. i'm going to move to>> thank you. i'm going to move to a>> thank you. i'm going to move to a vote.i'm going to move to a vote.

>> thank you.i'm going to move to a vote. alli'm going to move to a vote. all thosei'm going to move to a vote. all those ini'm going to move to a vote. all those in favori'm going to move to a vote. all those in favor fori'm going to move to a vote. all those in favor for itemi'm going to move to a vote. all those in favor for item 101all those in favor for item 101 i'm going to move to a vote.all those in favor for item 101

pleaseall those in favor for item 101 please indicateall those in favor for item 101 please indicate byall those in favor for item 101 please indicate by sayingall those in favor for item 101 please indicate by saying aye.please indicate by saying aye. all those in favor for item 101please indicate by saying aye. >>please indicate by saying aye. >>>> aye. >> opposed?>> opposed?

>> aye.>> opposed? all>> opposed? all those>> opposed? all those -->> opposed? all those -- hearing>> opposed? all those -- hearing noall those -- hearing no >> opposed?all those -- hearing no oppositionall those -- hearing no opposition theall those -- hearing no

opposition the recommendationsopposition the recommendations all those -- hearing noopposition the recommendations areopposition the recommendations are adopted.are adopted. opposition the recommendationsare adopted. thankare adopted. thank you,are adopted. thank you, judgesare adopted. thank you, judges costelo,are adopted.

thank you, judges costelo, cindythank you, judges costelo, cindy are adopted.thank you, judges costelo, cindy andthank you, judges costelo, cindy and doris.and doris. thank you, judges costelo, cindyand doris. notand doris. not judges,and doris. not judges, butand doris. not judges, but stilland doris.

not judges, but still veryand doris. not judges, but still very smartnot judges, but still very smart and doris.not judges, but still very smart people.people. not judges, but still very smartpeople. >>people. >> andpeople. >> and everyonepeople. >> and everyone else,people.

>> and everyone else, yeah.>> and everyone else, yeah. people.>> and everyone else, yeah. i>> and everyone else, yeah. i do>> and everyone else, yeah. i do want>> and everyone else, yeah. i do want to>> and everyone else, yeah. i do want to actually>> and everyone else, yeah. i do want to actually -->> and everyone else, yeah. i do want to actually -- on>> and everyone else, yeah.

i do want to actually -- on thisi do want to actually -- on this >> and everyone else, yeah.i do want to actually -- on this item,i do want to actually -- on this item, ii do want to actually -- on this item, i knowi do want to actually -- on this item, i know thati do want to actually -- on this item, i know that theyi do want to actually -- on this item, i know that they takei do want to actually -- on this item, i know that they take aitem, i know that they take a

i do want to actually -- on thisitem, i know that they take a lotitem, i know that they take a lot ofitem, i know that they take a lot of workitem, i know that they take a lot of work anditem, i know that they take a lot of work and notitem, i know that they take a lot of work and not justitem, i know that they take a lot of work and not just thelot of work and not just the item, i know that they take alot of work and not just the

peoplelot of work and not just the people wholot of work and not just the people who arelot of work and not just the people who are herelot of work and not just the people who are here speaking.people who are here speaking. lot of work and not just thepeople who are here speaking. a lotpeople who are here speaking. a lot ofpeople who are here speaking. a lot of staffpeople who are here speaking.

a lot of staff teamspeople who are here speaking. a lot of staff teams havepeople who are here speaking. a lot of staff teams have workeda lot of staff teams have worked people who are here speaking.a lot of staff teams have worked ona lot of staff teams have worked on thisa lot of staff teams have worked on this itema lot of staff teams have worked on this item anda lot of staff teams have worked on this item and alsoa lot of staff teams have worked

on this item and also theon this item and also the a lot of staff teams have workedon this item and also the partieson this item and also the parties themselves.parties themselves. on this item and also theparties themselves. i doparties themselves. i do wantparties themselves. i do want toparties themselves. i do want to thankparties themselves.

i do want to thank everyoneparties themselves. i do want to thank everyone fori do want to thank everyone for parties themselves.i do want to thank everyone for workingi do want to thank everyone for working throughi do want to thank everyone for working through complex,working through complex, i do want to thank everyone forworking through complex, difficultworking through complex, difficult ladderworking through complex,

difficult ladder andworking through complex, difficult ladder and helpingworking through complex, difficult ladder and helping usdifficult ladder and helping us working through complex,difficult ladder and helping us getdifficult ladder and helping us get todifficult ladder and helping us get to adifficult ladder and helping us get to a gooddifficult ladder and helping us get to a good solution.get to a good solution.

difficult ladder and helping usget to a good solution. soget to a good solution. so thankget to a good solution. get to a good solution.so thank you. >> weso thank you. >> we willso thank you. >> we will moveso thank you. >> we will move onso thank you. >> we will move on toso thank you.

>> we will move on to itemso thank you. >> we will move on to item 102>> we will move on to item 102 so thank you.>> we will move on to item 102 which>> we will move on to item 102 which is>> we will move on to item 102 which is also>> we will move on to item 102 which is also a>> we will move on to item 102 which is also a joint>> we will move on to item 102 which is also a joint proposalwhich is also a joint proposal

>> we will move on to item 102which is also a joint proposal regardingwhich is also a joint proposal regarding a natural gas incidentin schenectady. benin schenectady. ben wildein schenectady. ben wilde willin schenectady. ben wilde will bein schenectady. ben wilde will be presentingben wilde will be presenting in schenectady.ben wilde will be presenting

this.this. ben wilde will be presentingthis. goodthis. good afternoon,this. good afternoon, judgethis. good afternoon, judge wilde.good afternoon, judge wilde. this.good afternoon, judge wilde. >>good afternoon, judge wilde. >> goodgood afternoon, judge wilde.

>> good afternoon. >> you can proceed any timeyou're ready. >> thankyou're ready. you're ready.>> thank you. >> am>> thank you. >> am i>> thank you. >> am i getting>> thank you. >> am i getting close>> thank you. >> am i getting close enough>> thank you.

>> am i getting close enough to>> am i getting close enough to >> thank you.>> am i getting close enough to the>> am i getting close enough to the mike>> am i getting close enough to the mike here?the mike here? >> am i getting close enough tothe mike here? >> ithe mike here? >> i hearthe mike here? >> i hear youthe mike here?

>> i hear you fine.>> i hear you fine. the mike here?>> i hear you fine. >>>> i hear you fine. >> good.>> good. >> i hear you fine.>> good. >> this>> good. >> this case>> good. >> this case is>> good. >> this case is an>> good.

>> this case is an action>> good. >> this case is an action for>> this case is an action for >> good.>> this case is an action for the>> this case is an action for the recovery>> this case is an action for the recovery of>> this case is an action for the recovery of a>> this case is an action for the recovery of a penaltythe recovery of a penalty >> this case is an action forthe recovery of a penalty

pursuantthe recovery of a penalty pursuant tothe recovery of a penalty pursuant to publicthe recovery of a penalty pursuant to public servicethe recovery of a penalty pursuant to public service lawpursuant to public service law the recovery of a penaltypursuant to public service law >> you might need to move alittle closer and 2013 and this islittle closer and 2013 and this is thelittle closer and 2013 and this

is the firstlittle closer and 2013 and this is the first enforcementlittle closer and 2013 and this is the first enforcement actionis the first enforcement action little closer and 2013 and thisis the first enforcement action whichis the first enforcement action which theis the first enforcement action which the commissionis the first enforcement action which the commission hasis the first enforcement action which the commission has takenwhich the commission has taken

is the first enforcement actionwhich the commission has taken underwhich the commission has taken under thewhich the commission has taken under the newwhich the commission has taken under the new statute.under the new statute. which the commission has takenunder the new statute. publicunder the new statute. public serviceunder the new statute. public service lawunder the new statute.

public service law 25aunder the new statute. public service law 25a givesunder the new statute. public service law 25a gives thepublic service law 25a gives the under the new statute.public service law 25a gives the commissionpublic service law 25a gives the commission topublic service law 25a gives the commission to thepublic service law 25a gives the commission to the authoritypublic service law 25a gives the commission to the authority tocommission to the authority to

public service law 25a gives thecommission to the authority to imposecommission to the authority to impose ancommission to the authority to impose an administrativeimpose an administrative commission to the authority toimpose an administrative penalty.penalty. impose an administrativepenalty. whenpenalty. when apenalty.

when a combinationpenalty. when a combination gaspenalty. when a combination gas andwhen a combination gas and penalty.when a combination gas and electricwhen a combination gas and electric companywhen a combination gas and electric company failswhen a combination gas and electric company fails towhen a combination gas and electric company fails to complyelectric company fails to comply

when a combination gas andelectric company fails to comply withelectric company fails to comply with theelectric company fails to comply with the requirementelectric company fails to comply with the requirement ofelectric company fails to comply with the requirement of theelectric company fails to comply with the requirement of the pslwith the requirement of the psl electric company fails to complywith the requirement of the psl forwith the requirement of the psl

for awith the requirement of the psl for a regulationwith the requirement of the psl for a regulation underwith the requirement of the psl for a regulation under thewith the requirement of the psl for a regulation under the pslfor a regulation under the psl with the requirement of the pslfor a regulation under the psl orfor a regulation under the psl or anfor a regulation under the psl or an orderfor a regulation under the psl

or an order offor a regulation under the psl or an order of thefor a regulation under the psl or an order of the commissionor an order of the commission for a regulation under the pslor an order of the commission adoptedor an order of the commission adopted pursuantor an order of the commission adopted pursuant toor an order of the commission adopted pursuant to theor an order of the commission adopted pursuant to the psl.adopted pursuant to the psl.

or an order of the commissionadopted pursuant to the psl. prioradopted pursuant to the psl. prior toadopted pursuant to the psl. prior to theadopted pursuant to the psl. prior to the adoptionadopted pursuant to the psl. prior to the adoption ofadopted pursuant to the psl. prior to the adoption of psladopted pursuant to the psl. prior to the adoption of psl 25aprior to the adoption of psl 25a adopted pursuant to the psl.prior to the adoption of psl 25a

inprior to the adoption of psl 25a in 2013,prior to the adoption of psl 25a in 2013, theprior to the adoption of psl 25a in 2013, the commissionprior to the adoption of psl 25a in 2013, the commission soughtin 2013, the commission sought prior to the adoption of psl 25ain 2013, the commission sought to collectin 2013, the commission sought to collect penaltiesin 2013, the commission sought to collect penalties pursuantin 2013, the commission sought

to collect penalties pursuant toto collect penalties pursuant to in 2013, the commission soughtto collect penalties pursuant to pslto collect penalties pursuant to psl 25to collect penalties pursuant to psl 25 andto collect penalties pursuant to psl 25 and underto collect penalties pursuant to psl 25 and under pslto collect penalties pursuant to psl 25 and under psl 25to collect penalties pursuant to psl 25 and under psl 25 thepsl 25 and under psl 25 the

to collect penalties pursuant topsl 25 and under psl 25 the remedypsl 25 and under psl 25 the remedy ispsl 25 and under psl 25 the remedy is obtainedpsl 25 and under psl 25 the remedy is obtained throughremedy is obtained through psl 25 and under psl 25 theremedy is obtained through judicialremedy is obtained through judicial actionremedy is obtained through judicial action inremedy is obtained through

judicial action in comparisonremedy is obtained through judicial action in comparison tojudicial action in comparison to remedy is obtained throughjudicial action in comparison to thejudicial action in comparison to the psljudicial action in comparison to the psl 25ajudicial action in comparison to the psl 25a wherejudicial action in comparison to the psl 25a where thejudicial action in comparison to the psl 25a where the commissionthe psl 25a where the commission

judicial action in comparison tothe psl 25a where the commission canthe psl 25a where the commission can imposethe psl 25a where the commission can impose athe psl 25a where the commission can impose a penaltycan impose a penalty the psl 25a where the commissioncan impose a penalty administratively.administratively. can impose a penaltyadministratively. withadministratively.

with thatadministratively. with that background,administratively. with that background, weadministratively. with that background, we canwith that background, we can administratively.with that background, we can turnwith that background, we can turn towith that background, we can turn to thewith that background, we can turn to the actualwith that background, we can

turn to the actual circumstancesturn to the actual circumstances with that background, we canturn to the actual circumstances ofturn to the actual circumstances of theturn to the actual circumstances of the case.of the case. turn to the actual circumstancesof the case. address in schenectady.on august 10, 2013, was there an explosionon august 10, 2013, was there an explosion aton august 10, 2013, was there an

explosion at thison august 10, 2013, was there an explosion at this addresson august 10, 2013, was there an explosion at this address whichexplosion at this address which on august 10, 2013, was there anexplosion at this address which whileexplosion at this address which while notexplosion at this address which while not causingexplosion at this address which while not causing anyexplosion at this address which while not causing any personalwhile not causing any personal

explosion at this address whichwhile not causing any personal injurywhile not causing any personal injury completelywhile not causing any personal injury completely destroyedwhile not causing any personal injury completely destroyed theinjury completely destroyed the while not causing any personalinjury completely destroyed the house.house. injury completely destroyed thehouse. the departmenthouse.

the department conductedhouse. the department conducted anthe department conducted an house.the department conducted an investigationthe department conducted an investigation ofthe department conducted an investigation of thethe department conducted an investigation of the explosioninvestigation of the explosion the department conducted aninvestigation of the explosion toinvestigation of the explosion

to determineinvestigation of the explosion to determine whatinvestigation of the explosion to determine what theinvestigation of the explosion to determine what the causeinvestigation of the explosion to determine what the cause ofto determine what the cause of investigation of the explosionto determine what the cause of the explosion wasto determine what the cause of the explosion was andto determine what the cause of the explosion was and whetherthe explosion was and whether

to determine what the cause ofthe explosion was and whether the actionsthe explosion was and whether the actions ofthe explosion was and whether the actions of thethe explosion was and whether the actions of the gasthe explosion was and whether the actions of the gas supplier,the actions of the gas supplier, the explosion was and whetherthe actions of the gas supplier, niagarathe actions of the gas supplier, niagara mohawk,the actions of the gas supplier,

niagara mohawk, causedthe actions of the gas supplier, niagara mohawk, caused orniagara mohawk, caused or the actions of the gas supplier,niagara mohawk, caused or contributedniagara mohawk, caused or contributed toniagara mohawk, caused or contributed to theniagara mohawk, caused or contributed to the accident.contributed to the accident. niagara mohawk, caused orcontributed to the accident. niagara mohawk'scontributed to the accident.

niagara mohawk's recordniagara mohawk's record contributed to the accident.niagara mohawk's record indicatedniagara mohawk's record indicated andniagara mohawk's record indicated and indicateniagara mohawk's record indicated and indicate thatniagara mohawk's record indicated and indicate that theindicated and indicate that the niagara mohawk's recordindicated and indicate that the companyindicated and indicate that the

company wasindicated and indicate that the company was firstindicated and indicate that the company was first calledindicated and indicate that the company was first called toindicated and indicate that the company was first called to 310company was first called to 310 indicated and indicate that thecompany was first called to 310 pagecompany was first called to 310 page streetcompany was first called to 310 page street incompany was first called to 310

page street in marchcompany was first called to 310 page street in march 2013company was first called to 310 page street in march 2013 forcompany was first called to 310 page street in march 2013 for apage street in march 2013 for a company was first called to 310page street in march 2013 for a gaspage street in march 2013 for a gas meterpage street in march 2013 for a gas meter turnoffpage street in march 2013 for a gas meter turnoff andpage street in march 2013 for a

gas meter turnoff and itpage street in march 2013 for a gas meter turnoff and it wasgas meter turnoff and it was page street in march 2013 for agas meter turnoff and it was calledgas meter turnoff and it was called againgas meter turnoff and it was called again ongas meter turnoff and it was called again on fivegas meter turnoff and it was called again on five morecalled again on five more gas meter turnoff and it wascalled again on five more

occasionscalled again on five more occasions incalled again on five more occasions in 2013.occasions in 2013. called again on five moreoccasions in 2013. notoccasions in 2013. not withstandingoccasions in 2013. not withstanding theseoccasions in 2013. not withstanding these multiplenot withstanding these multiple occasions in 2013.not withstanding these multiple

visitsnot withstanding these multiple visits thenot withstanding these multiple visits the companynot withstanding these multiple visits the company didnot withstanding these multiple visits the company did notnot withstanding these multiple visits the company did not turnvisits the company did not turn not withstanding these multiplevisits the company did not turn offvisits the company did not turn off thevisits the company did not turn

off the gasvisits the company did not turn off the gas atvisits the company did not turn off the gas at thisvisits the company did not turn off the gas at this address.off the gas at this address. visits the company did not turnoff the gas at this address. the staffoff the gas at this address. the staff reportoff the gas at this address. the staff report identifiedoff the gas at this address. the staff report identified twothe staff report identified two

off the gas at this address.the staff report identified two potentialthe staff report identified two potential violationsthe staff report identified two potential violations bythe staff report identified two potential violations by niagarapotential violations by niagara the staff report identified twopotential violations by niagara mohawkpotential violations by niagara mohawk ofpotential violations by niagara mohawk of ourpotential violations by niagara

mohawk of our codepotential violations by niagara mohawk of our code ofpotential violations by niagara mohawk of our code of gasmohawk of our code of gas potential violations by niagaramohawk of our code of gas safety.safety. mohawk of our code of gassafety. first,safety. first, thesafety. first, the investigationfirst, the investigation

safety.first, the investigation determinedfirst, the investigation determined thatfirst, the investigation determined that niagarafirst, the investigation determined that niagara mohawkdetermined that niagara mohawk first, the investigationdetermined that niagara mohawk faileddetermined that niagara mohawk failed to,determined that niagara mohawk failed to, quote,determined that niagara mohawk

failed to, quote, unquote,determined that niagara mohawk failed to, quote, unquote, lockfailed to, quote, unquote, lock determined that niagara mohawkfailed to, quote, unquote, lock thefailed to, quote, unquote, lock the meter.the meter. failed to, quote, unquote, lockthe meter. whichthe meter. which isthe meter. which is athe meter.

which is a phrasethe meter. which is a phrase usedthe meter. which is a phrase used towhich is a phrase used to the meter.which is a phrase used to describewhich is a phrase used to describe actionswhich is a phrase used to describe actions takenwhich is a phrase used to describe actions taken todescribe actions taken to which is a phrase used todescribe actions taken to

discontinuedescribe actions taken to discontinue gasdescribe actions taken to discontinue gas overdescribe actions taken to discontinue gas over thedescribe actions taken to discontinue gas over the servicediscontinue gas over the service describe actions taken todiscontinue gas over the service line.line. discontinue gas over the serviceline. andline.

and intoline. and into theline. and into the premises.and into the premises. line.and into the premises. >>and into the premises. >> theyand into the premises. >> they failedand into the premises. >> they failed toand into the premises. >> they failed to lockand into the premises.

>> they failed to lock theand into the premises. >> they failed to lock the meter>> they failed to lock the meter and into the premises.>> they failed to lock the meter for>> they failed to lock the meter for the>> they failed to lock the meter for the accounts>> they failed to lock the meter for the accounts at>> they failed to lock the meter for the accounts at this>> they failed to lock the meter for the accounts at this addressfor the accounts at this address

>> they failed to lock the meterfor the accounts at this address whenfor the accounts at this address when theyfor the accounts at this address when they receivedfor the accounts at this address when they received afor the accounts at this address when they received a requestfor the accounts at this address when they received a request towhen they received a request to for the accounts at this addresswhen they received a request to discontinuewhen they received a request to

discontinue gaswhen they received a request to discontinue gas servicewhen they received a request to discontinue gas service atwhen they received a request to discontinue gas service at thisdiscontinue gas service at this when they received a request todiscontinue gas service at this address.address. discontinue gas service at thisaddress. thereaddress. there areaddress.

there are threeaddress. there are three waysaddress. there are three ways toaddress. there are three ways to lockaddress. there are three ways to lock thethere are three ways to lock the address.there are three ways to lock the metersthere are three ways to lock the meters thatthere are three ways to lock the meters that arethere are three ways to lock the

meters that are acceptablethere are three ways to lock the meters that are acceptable undermeters that are acceptable under there are three ways to lock themeters that are acceptable under the codemeters that are acceptable under the code ofmeters that are acceptable under the code of gasmeters that are acceptable under the code of gas safetymeters that are acceptable under the code of gas safety andthe code of gas safety and meters that are acceptable underthe code of gas safety and

niagarathe code of gas safety and niagara mohawkthe code of gas safety and niagara mohawk failedthe code of gas safety and niagara mohawk failed tothe code of gas safety and niagara mohawk failed to dothe code of gas safety and niagara mohawk failed to do anyniagara mohawk failed to do any the code of gas safety andniagara mohawk failed to do any of these.of these. niagara mohawk failed to do anyof these.

>>of these. >> theof these. >> the second,of these. >> the second, theof these. >> the second, the staff>> the second, the staff of these.>> the second, the staff determined>> the second, the staff determined that>> the second, the staff determined that they>> the second, the staff

determined that they were>> the second, the staff determined that they were lockdetermined that they were lock >> the second, the staffdetermined that they were lock the meterdetermined that they were lock the meter indetermined that they were lock the meter in itsdetermined that they were lock the meter in its writtenthe meter in its written determined that they were lockthe meter in its written proceduresthe meter in its written

procedures andthe meter in its written procedures and itthe meter in its written procedures and it requiresthe meter in its written procedures and it requires theprocedures and it requires the the meter in its writtenprocedures and it requires the companyprocedures and it requires the company toprocedures and it requires the company to followprocedures and it requires the company to follow theprocedures and it requires the

company to follow the writtencompany to follow the written procedures and it requires thecompany to follow the written procedures.procedures. company to follow the writtenprocedures. clearlyprocedures. clearly theprocedures. clearly the companiesprocedures. clearly the companies thatprocedures. clearly the companies that doprocedures.

clearly the companies that do soclearly the companies that do so procedures.clearly the companies that do so soclearly the companies that do so so thisclearly the companies that do so so this isclearly the companies that do so so this is theclearly the companies that do so so this is the secondclearly the companies that do so so this is the second potentialso this is the second potential clearly the companies that do soso this is the second potential

violation.violation. so this is the second potentialviolation. underviolation. under publicviolation. under public serviceviolation. under public service lawviolation. under public service law 25a,under public service law 25a, violation.under public service law 25a, niagaraunder public service law 25a,

niagara mohawkunder public service law 25a, niagara mohawk couldunder public service law 25a, niagara mohawk could beunder public service law 25a, niagara mohawk could be liableniagara mohawk could be liable under public service law 25a,niagara mohawk could be liable forniagara mohawk could be liable for anniagara mohawk could be liable for an administrativeniagara mohawk could be liable for an administrative penaltyniagara mohawk could be liable

for an administrative penalty offor an administrative penalty of niagara mohawk could be liablefor an administrative penalty of violations.a total penalty for $500,000. on maya total penalty for $500,000. on may 15,a total penalty for $500,000. on may 15, 2015a total penalty for $500,000. on may 15, 2015 anda total penalty for $500,000. on may 15, 2015 and baseda total penalty for $500,000. on may 15, 2015 and based ona total penalty for $500,000.

on may 15, 2015 and based on theon may 15, 2015 and based on the a total penalty for $500,000.on may 15, 2015 and based on the staffon may 15, 2015 and based on the staff investigation,on may 15, 2015 and based on the staff investigation, thestaff investigation, the on may 15, 2015 and based on thestaff investigation, the commissionstaff investigation, the commission beganstaff investigation, the commission began thisstaff investigation, the

commission began this casestaff investigation, the commission began this case andcommission began this case and staff investigation, thecommission began this case and directcommission began this case and direct itscommission began this case and direct its staffcommission began this case and direct its staff tocommission began this case and direct its staff to conductcommission began this case and direct its staff to conduct thedirect its staff to conduct the

commission began this case anddirect its staff to conduct the hearingdirect its staff to conduct the hearing anddirect its staff to conduct the hearing and anydirect its staff to conduct the hearing and any otherdirect its staff to conduct the hearing and any other procedureshearing and any other procedures direct its staff to conduct thehearing and any other procedures neededhearing and any other procedures needed tohearing and any other procedures

needed to resolvehearing and any other procedures needed to resolve thehearing and any other procedures needed to resolve the matter.needed to resolve the matter. hearing and any other proceduresneeded to resolve the matter. in mayneeded to resolve the matter. in may --needed to resolve the matter. in may -- inneeded to resolve the matter. in may -- in theneeded to resolve the matter. in may -- in the mayneeded to resolve the matter.

in may -- in the may 2015needed to resolve the matter. in may -- in the may 2015 orderin may -- in the may 2015 order needed to resolve the matter.in may -- in the may 2015 order the commissionin may -- in the may 2015 order the commission suggestedin may -- in the may 2015 order the commission suggested thatthe commission suggested that in may -- in the may 2015 orderthe commission suggested that the administrativethe commission suggested that the administrative penaltythe commission suggested that

the administrative penalty forthe administrative penalty for the commission suggested thatthe administrative penalty for thesethe administrative penalty for these twothe administrative penalty for these two violationsthe administrative penalty for these two violations wouldthe administrative penalty for these two violations would totalthese two violations would total the administrative penalty forthese two violations would total supported the higher penalty.>> following the order, niagara

mohawk>> following the order, niagara mohawk and>> following the order, niagara mohawk and staff>> following the order, niagara mohawk and staff conductedmohawk and staff conducted >> following the order, niagaramohawk and staff conducted settlementmohawk and staff conducted settlement discussions.settlement discussions. mohawk and staff conductedsettlement discussions. thesesettlement discussions.

these settlementsettlement discussions. these settlement discussionsthese settlement discussions settlement discussions.these settlement discussions continuedthese settlement discussions continued untilthese settlement discussions continued until junethese settlement discussions continued until june 2016these settlement discussions continued until june 2016 whencontinued until june 2016 when these settlement discussionscontinued until june 2016 when

staffcontinued until june 2016 when staff andcontinued until june 2016 when staff and niagaracontinued until june 2016 when staff and niagara mohawkcontinued until june 2016 when staff and niagara mohawk filedcontinued until june 2016 when staff and niagara mohawk filed astaff and niagara mohawk filed a continued until june 2016 whenstaff and niagara mohawk filed a jointstaff and niagara mohawk filed a joint proposalstaff and niagara mohawk filed a

joint proposal forstaff and niagara mohawk filed a joint proposal for settlementstaff and niagara mohawk filed a joint proposal for settlement ofjoint proposal for settlement of staff and niagara mohawk filed ajoint proposal for settlement of thejoint proposal for settlement of the case.the case. joint proposal for settlement ofthe case. >>the case. >> underthe case.

>> under thethe case. >> under the termsthe case. >> under the terms ofthe case. >> under the terms of thethe case. >> under the terms of the joint>> under the terms of the joint the case.>> under the terms of the joint proposal>> under the terms of the joint proposal it's>> under the terms of the joint proposal it's proposed>> under the terms of the joint

proposal it's proposed thatproposal it's proposed that >> under the terms of the jointproposal it's proposed that niagaraproposal it's proposed that niagara mohawkproposal it's proposed that niagara mohawk wouldproposal it's proposed that niagara mohawk would agreeproposal it's proposed that niagara mohawk would agree toniagara mohawk would agree to proposal it's proposed thatniagara mohawk would agree to useniagara mohawk would agree to

use theniagara mohawk would agree to use the callniagara mohawk would agree to use the call scriptsniagara mohawk would agree to use the call scripts andniagara mohawk would agree to use the call scripts and calluse the call scripts and call niagara mohawk would agree touse the call scripts and call centersuse the call scripts and call centers anduse the call scripts and call centers and woulduse the call scripts and call

centers and would monitoruse the call scripts and call centers and would monitor itcenters and would monitor it use the call scripts and callcenters and would monitor it morecenters and would monitor it more closelycenters and would monitor it more closely oncenters and would monitor it more closely on usedcenters and would monitor it more closely on used accountsmore closely on used accounts centers and would monitor itmore closely on used accounts

and would interactmore closely on used accounts and would interact bettermore closely on used accounts and would interact better toand would interact better to more closely on used accountsand would interact better to identifyand would interact better to identify vacantand would interact better to identify vacant properties.identify vacant properties. and would interact better toidentify vacant properties. in addition,identify vacant properties.

in addition, niagaraidentify vacant properties. in addition, niagara mohawkin addition, niagara mohawk identify vacant properties.in addition, niagara mohawk wouldin addition, niagara mohawk would commitin addition, niagara mohawk would commit toin addition, niagara mohawk would commit to makein addition, niagara mohawk would commit to make ain addition, niagara mohawk would commit to make a greterwould commit to make a greter

in addition, niagara mohawkwould commit to make a greter effortwould commit to make a greter effort towould commit to make a greter effort to movewould commit to make a greter effort to move meterswould commit to make a greter effort to move meters fromeffort to move meters from would commit to make a gretereffort to move meters from insideeffort to move meters from inside toeffort to move meters from

inside to outsideeffort to move meters from inside to outside theeffort to move meters from inside to outside the customers'inside to outside the customers' effort to move meters frominside to outside the customers' premises,inside to outside the customers' premises, andinside to outside the customers' premises, and finally,inside to outside the customers' premises, and finally, niagarapremises, and finally, niagara inside to outside the customers'premises, and finally, niagara

mohawkpremises, and finally, niagara mohawk topremises, and finally, niagara mohawk to thepremises, and finally, niagara mohawk to the usepremises, and finally, niagara mohawk to the use ofpremises, and finally, niagara mohawk to the use of remotemohawk to the use of remote premises, and finally, niagaramohawk to the use of remote mooertmohawk to the use of remote mooert valves.mooert valves.

mohawk to the use of remotemooert valves. >>mooert valves. >> undermooert valves. >> under themooert valves. >> under the jointmooert valves. >> under the joint proposal,mooert valves. >> under the joint proposal, the>> under the joint proposal, the mooert valves.>> under the joint proposal, the company's>> under the joint proposal, the

company's support>> under the joint proposal, the company's support for>> under the joint proposal, the company's support for thiscompany's support for this >> under the joint proposal, thecompany's support for this programcompany's support for this program iscompany's support for this program is setcompany's support for this program is set forcompany's support for this program is set for $500,000.program is set for $500,000.

company's support for thisprogram is set for $500,000. whenprogram is set for $500,000. when theprogram is set for $500,000. when the companyprogram is set for $500,000. when the company incursprogram is set for $500,000. when the company incurs anwhen the company incurs an program is set for $500,000.when the company incurs an expensewhen the company incurs an expense thewhen the company incurs an

expense the companywhen the company incurs an expense the company willwhen the company incurs an expense the company will paywhen the company incurs an expense the company will pay aexpense the company will pay a when the company incurs anexpense the company will pay a totalexpense the company will pay a total ofexpense the company will pay a total of $500,000expense the company will pay a total of $500,000 andexpense the company will pay a

total of $500,000 and notexpense the company will pay a total of $500,000 and not seekexpense the company will pay a total of $500,000 and not seek atotal of $500,000 and not seek a expense the company will pay atotal of $500,000 and not seek a recoverytotal of $500,000 and not seek a recovery oftotal of $500,000 and not seek a recovery of thistotal of $500,000 and not seek a recovery of this amounttotal of $500,000 and not seek a recovery of this amount fromrecovery of this amount from

total of $500,000 and not seek arecovery of this amount from raterecovery of this amount from rate payers.rate payers. recovery of this amount fromrate payers. >>rate payers. >> whenrate payers. >> when niagararate payers. >> when niagara mohawkrate payers. >> when niagara mohawk makesrate payers.

>> when niagara mohawk makes a>> when niagara mohawk makes a rate payers.>> when niagara mohawk makes a payment>> when niagara mohawk makes a payment as>> when niagara mohawk makes a payment as part>> when niagara mohawk makes a payment as part of>> when niagara mohawk makes a payment as part of the>> when niagara mohawk makes a payment as part of the $500,000payment as part of the $500,000 >> when niagara mohawk makes apayment as part of the $500,000

itpayment as part of the $500,000 it createspayment as part of the $500,000 it creates apayment as part of the $500,000 it creates a taxpayment as part of the $500,000 it creates a tax deductionpayment as part of the $500,000 it creates a tax deduction init creates a tax deduction in payment as part of the $500,000it creates a tax deduction in thatit creates a tax deduction in that sameit creates a tax deduction in

that same amount.that same amount. it creates a tax deduction inthat same amount. thisthat same amount. this taxthat same amount. this tax deductionthat same amount. this tax deduction hasthat same amount. this tax deduction has somethis tax deduction has some that same amount.this tax deduction has some valuethis tax deduction has some

value tothis tax deduction has some value to niagarathis tax deduction has some value to niagara mohawk.value to niagara mohawk. this tax deduction has somevalue to niagara mohawk. so thisvalue to niagara mohawk. so this provisionvalue to niagara mohawk. so this provision ofvalue to niagara mohawk. so this provision of thevalue to niagara mohawk. so this provision of the jointso this provision of the joint

value to niagara mohawk.so this provision of the joint proposalso this provision of the joint proposal isso this provision of the joint proposal is theso this provision of the joint proposal is the netso this provision of the joint proposal is the net impactso this provision of the joint proposal is the net impact andproposal is the net impact and so this provision of the jointproposal is the net impact and this impactproposal is the net impact and

this impact underproposal is the net impact and this impact under theproposal is the net impact and this impact under the jointthis impact under the joint proposal is the net impact andthis impact under the joint proposal is significantlythis impact under the joint proposal is significantly lessproposal is significantly less this impact under the jointproposal is significantly less thanproposal is significantly less than $500,000.than $500,000.

proposal is significantly lessthan $500,000. thethan $500,000. the draftthan $500,000. the draft orderthan $500,000. the draft order andthe draft order and than $500,000.the draft order and characterizedthe draft order and characterized draftthe draft order and characterized draft ordthe draft order and

characterized draft ord orcharacterized draft ord or the draft order andcharacterized draft ord or considerationcharacterized draft ord or consideration ofcharacterized draft ord or consideration of jointcharacterized draft ord or consideration of joint proposal.consideration of joint proposal. characterized draft ord orconsideration of joint proposal. throughconsideration of joint proposal. through thisconsideration of joint proposal.

through this orderconsideration of joint proposal. through this order thethrough this order the consideration of joint proposal.through this order the commissionthrough this order the commission declinesthrough this order the commission declines tothrough this order the commission declines to beingacommission declines to beinga through this order thecommission declines to beinga sentcommission declines to beinga

sent orcommission declines to beinga sent or tocommission declines to beinga sent or to approvecommission declines to beinga sent or to approve thecommission declines to beinga sent or to approve the termscommission declines to beinga sent or to approve the terms ofsent or to approve the terms of commission declines to beingasent or to approve the terms of thesent or to approve the terms of the jointsent or to approve the terms of

the joint proposal.the joint proposal. sent or to approve the terms ofthe joint proposal. >>the joint proposal. >> thethe joint proposal. >> the commissioner'sthe joint proposal. >> the commissioner's decision>> the commissioner's decision the joint proposal.>> the commissioner's decision does>> the commissioner's decision does not>> the commissioner's decision

does not reject>> the commissioner's decision does not reject any>> the commissioner's decision does not reject any of>> the commissioner's decision does not reject any of thedoes not reject any of the >> the commissioner's decisiondoes not reject any of the commitmentsdoes not reject any of the commitments todoes not reject any of the commitments to improvedoes not reject any of the commitments to improve practicescommitments to improve practices

does not reject any of thecommitments to improve practices orcommitments to improve practices or procedurescommitments to improve practices or procedures thatcommitments to improve practices or procedures that niagaraor procedures that niagara commitments to improve practicesor procedures that niagara mohawkor procedures that niagara mohawk hasor procedures that niagara mohawk has offeredor procedures that niagara

mohawk has offered toor procedures that niagara mohawk has offered to acceptor procedures that niagara mohawk has offered to accept inmohawk has offered to accept in or procedures that niagaramohawk has offered to accept in a jointmohawk has offered to accept in a joint proposal.a joint proposal. mohawk has offered to accept ina joint proposal. thesea joint proposal. these werea joint proposal.

these were thea joint proposal. these were the improveda joint proposal. these were the improved scriptsthese were the improved scripts a joint proposal.these were the improved scripts andthese were the improved scripts and betterthese were the improved scripts and better monitoringthese were the improved scripts and better monitoring ofand better monitoring of these were the improved scriptsand better monitoring of

accountsand better monitoring of accounts andand better monitoring of accounts and communicationsand better monitoring of accounts and communications withaccounts and communications with and better monitoring ofaccounts and communications with municipalitiesaccounts and communications with municipalities andaccounts and communications with municipalities and theaccounts and communications with municipalities and the movementmunicipalities and the movement

accounts and communications withmunicipalities and the movement frommunicipalities and the movement from insidemunicipalities and the movement from inside tomunicipalities and the movement from inside to outsidemunicipalities and the movement from inside to outside thefrom inside to outside the municipalities and the movementfrom inside to outside the premises.premises. from inside to outside thepremises.

the commission'spremises. the commission's objectionpremises. the commission's objection asthe commission's objection as premises.the commission's objection as setthe commission's objection as set forththe commission's objection as set forth inthe commission's objection as set forth in thethe commission's objection as set forth in the orderset forth in the order

the commission's objection asset forth in the order recommendedset forth in the order recommended isset forth in the order recommended is thatset forth in the order recommended is that theset forth in the order recommended is that the taxrecommended is that the tax set forth in the orderrecommended is that the tax effectrecommended is that the tax effect doesrecommended is that the tax

effect does therecommended is that the tax effect does the jointrecommended is that the tax effect does the joint proposaleffect does the joint proposal recommended is that the taxeffect does the joint proposal andeffect does the joint proposal and theeffect does the joint proposal and the neteffect does the joint proposal and the net financialeffect does the joint proposal and the net financial impacteffect does the joint proposal

and the net financial impact ofand the net financial impact of effect does the joint proposaland the net financial impact of the settlementand the net financial impact of the settlement onand the net financial impact of the settlement on niagaraand the net financial impact of the settlement on niagara mohawkthe settlement on niagara mohawk and the net financial impact ofthe settlement on niagara mohawk and shareholdersthe settlement on niagara mohawk and shareholders belowthe settlement on niagara mohawk

and shareholders below $500,000.and shareholders below $500,000. the settlement on niagara mohawkand shareholders below $500,000. thisand shareholders below $500,000. this reducedand shareholders below $500,000. this reduced after-taxand shareholders below $500,000. this reduced after-tax impactand shareholders below $500,000. this reduced after-tax impact isthis reduced after-tax impact is and shareholders below $500,000.this reduced after-tax impact is notthis reduced after-tax impact is

not consistentthis reduced after-tax impact is not consistent withthis reduced after-tax impact is not consistent with athis reduced after-tax impact is not consistent with a robustnot consistent with a robust this reduced after-tax impact isnot consistent with a robust enforcementnot consistent with a robust enforcement ofnot consistent with a robust enforcement of ournot consistent with a robust enforcement of our codenot consistent with a robust

enforcement of our code ofnot consistent with a robust enforcement of our code of gasenforcement of our code of gas not consistent with a robustenforcement of our code of gas safetyenforcement of our code of gas safety andenforcement of our code of gas safety and theenforcement of our code of gas safety and the potentialenforcement of our code of gas safety and the potential ofenforcement of our code of gas safety and the potential of thesafety and the potential of the

enforcement of our code of gassafety and the potential of the penaltiessafety and the potential of the penalties describedsafety and the potential of the penalties described insafety and the potential of the penalties described in pslsafety and the potential of the penalties described in psl 25a.penalties described in psl 25a. safety and the potential of thepenalties described in psl 25a. the orderpenalties described in psl 25a. the order andpenalties described in psl 25a.

the order and thepenalties described in psl 25a. the order and the draftpenalties described in psl 25a. the order and the draft orderthe order and the draft order penalties described in psl 25a.the order and the draft order statesthe order and the draft order states thatthe order and the draft order states that thethe order and the draft order states that the impactthe order and the draft order states that the impact ofthe order and the draft order

states that the impact of thestates that the impact of the the order and the draft orderstates that the impact of the settlementstates that the impact of the settlement onstates that the impact of the settlement on thestates that the impact of the settlement on the company'ssettlement on the company's states that the impact of thesettlement on the company's shareholderssettlement on the company's shareholders mustsettlement on the company's

shareholders must besettlement on the company's shareholders must be assettlement on the company's shareholders must be as greatsettlement on the company's shareholders must be as great asshareholders must be as great as settlement on the company'sshareholders must be as great as the $500shareholders must be as great as the $500 asshareholders must be as great as the $500 as theshareholders must be as great as the $500 as the impactshareholders must be as great as

the $500 as the impact ofshareholders must be as great as the $500 as the impact of thethe $500 as the impact of the shareholders must be as great asthe $500 as the impact of the been.>> accordingly and solely because>> accordingly and solely because of>> accordingly and solely because of the>> accordingly and solely because of the shift>> accordingly and solely because of the shift of>> accordingly and solely

because of the shift of thebecause of the shift of the >> accordingly and solelybecause of the shift of the financialbecause of the shift of the financial impactbecause of the shift of the financial impact causedbecause of the shift of the financial impact caused bybecause of the shift of the financial impact caused by thefinancial impact caused by the because of the shift of thefinancial impact caused by the federalfinancial impact caused by the

federal andfinancial impact caused by the federal and incomefinancial impact caused by the federal and income statefinancial impact caused by the federal and income state taxfederal and income state tax financial impact caused by thefederal and income state tax deduction,federal and income state tax deduction, thefederal and income state tax deduction, the recommendationfederal and income state tax deduction, the recommendation ofdeduction, the recommendation of

federal and income state taxdeduction, the recommendation of thisdeduction, the recommendation of this itemdeduction, the recommendation of this item isdeduction, the recommendation of this item is thatdeduction, the recommendation of this item is that thededuction, the recommendation of this item is that the jointthis item is that the joint deduction, the recommendation ofthis item is that the joint proposalthis item is that the joint

proposal cannotthis item is that the joint proposal cannot bethis item is that the joint proposal cannot be approved.proposal cannot be approved. this item is that the jointproposal cannot be approved. littleproposal cannot be approved. little possible,proposal cannot be approved. little possible, however,proposal cannot be approved. little possible, however, forlittle possible, however, for proposal cannot be approved.little possible, however, for

thelittle possible, however, for the implementationlittle possible, however, for the implementation tolittle possible, however, for the implementation to belittle possible, however, for the implementation to be placedthe implementation to be placed little possible, however, forthe implementation to be placed whichthe implementation to be placed which willthe implementation to be placed which will makethe implementation to be placed

which will make thethe implementation to be placed which will make the settlementwhich will make the settlement the implementation to be placedwhich will make the settlement approvablwhich will make the settlement approvable.draft order. commitment>> if niagara mohawk makes a draft order.>> if niagara mohawk makes a commitment to>> if niagara mohawk makes a commitment to forego>> if niagara mohawk makes a

commitment to forego the>> if niagara mohawk makes a commitment to forego the taxcommitment to forego the tax >> if niagara mohawk makes acommitment to forego the tax deductioncommitment to forego the tax deduction createdcommitment to forego the tax deduction created bycommitment to forego the tax deduction created by thededuction created by the commitment to forego the taxdeduction created by the paymentsdeduction created by the

payments todeduction created by the payments to supportdeduction created by the payments to support thededuction created by the payments to support the meterpayments to support the meter deduction created by thepayments to support the meter pilotpayments to support the meter pilot thepayments to support the meter pilot the fourthpayments to support the meter pilot the fourth financialpilot the fourth financial

payments to support the meterpilot the fourth financial impactpilot the fourth financial impact ofpilot the fourth financial impact of thepilot the fourth financial impact of the $500,000pilot the fourth financial impact of the $500,000 paymentimpact of the $500,000 payment pilot the fourth financialimpact of the $500,000 payment byimpact of the $500,000 payment by niagaraimpact of the $500,000 payment

by niagara mohawkimpact of the $500,000 payment by niagara mohawk wouldimpact of the $500,000 payment by niagara mohawk would beimpact of the $500,000 payment by niagara mohawk would be felt.by niagara mohawk would be felt. impact of the $500,000 paymentby niagara mohawk would be felt. underby niagara mohawk would be felt. under theseby niagara mohawk would be felt. under these circumstancesby niagara mohawk would be felt. under these circumstances theunder these circumstances the

by niagara mohawk would be felt.under these circumstances the jointunder these circumstances the joint proposalunder these circumstances the joint proposal wouldunder these circumstances the joint proposal would bejoint proposal would be under these circumstances thejoint proposal would be acceptablejoint proposal would be acceptable andjoint proposal would be acceptable and thereforejoint proposal would be

acceptable and therefore theacceptable and therefore the joint proposal would beacceptable and therefore the draftacceptable and therefore the draft orderacceptable and therefore the draft order providesacceptable and therefore the draft order provides that,acceptable and therefore the draft order provides that, ifdraft order provides that, if acceptable and therefore thedraft order provides that, if thisdraft order provides that, if

this isdraft order provides that, if this is adraft order provides that, if this is a shortdraft order provides that, if this is a short xhiltmentdraft order provides that, if this is a short xhiltment thatthis is a short xhiltment that draft order provides that, ifthis is a short xhiltment that niagarathis is a short xhiltment that niagara mohawkthis is a short xhiltment that niagara mohawk hasthis is a short xhiltment that

niagara mohawk has madethis is a short xhiltment that niagara mohawk has made theniagara mohawk has made the this is a short xhiltment thatniagara mohawk has made the jointniagara mohawk has made the joint proposalniagara mohawk has made the joint proposal wouldniagara mohawk has made the niagara mohawk has made thejoint proposal would be joint proposal would beapproved. andapproved.

and myapproved. and my descriptionapproved. and my description ofapproved. and my description of theapproved. and my description of the caseand my description of the case approved.and my description of the case thatand my description of the case that weand my description of the case that we areand my description of the case

that we are dealingand my description of the case that we are dealing with.that we are dealing with. and my description of the casethat we are dealing with. ifthat we are dealing with. if therethat we are dealing with. if there arethat we are dealing with. if there are anythat we are dealing with. if there are any questionsthat we are dealing with. if there are any questions iif there are any questions i

that we are dealing with.if there are any questions i wouldif there are any questions i would beif there are any questions i would be happyif there are any questions i would be happy toif there are any questions i would be happy to respond.would be happy to respond. if there are any questions iwould be happy to respond. >>would be happy to respond. would be happy to respond.>> sure.

just>> sure. just a>> sure. just a couple>> sure. just a couple of>> sure. just a couple of proceduraljust a couple of procedural >> sure.just a couple of procedural questions.questions. just a couple of proceduralquestions. soquestions.

so thisquestions. so this isquestions. so this is anquestions. so this is an example,questions. so this is an example, frankly,so this is an example, frankly, questions.so this is an example, frankly, whereso this is an example, frankly, where theso this is an example, frankly, where the commissionso this is an example, frankly,

where the commission isso this is an example, frankly, where the commission is notwhere the commission is not so this is an example, frankly,where the commission is not acceptingwhere the commission is not accepting awhere the commission is not accepting a jpswhere the commission is not accepting a jps designwhere the commission is not accepting a jps design andwhere the commission is not accepting a jps design and it'saccepting a jps design and it's

where the commission is notaccepting a jps design and it's makingaccepting a jps design and it's making aaccepting a jps design and it's making a modification,accepting a jps design and it's making a modification, andaccepting a jps design and it's making a modification, and imaking a modification, and i accepting a jps design and it'smaking a modification, and i think,making a modification, and i think, frommaking a modification, and i

think, from mymaking a modification, and i think, from my perspective,making a modification, and i think, from my perspective, it'sthink, from my perspective, it's making a modification, and ithink, from my perspective, it's an importantthink, from my perspective, it's an important modification.an important modification. think, from my perspective, it'san important modification. wean important modification. we gotan important modification.

we got lookyan important modification. we got looky inan important modification. we got looky in thean important modification. we got looky in the sensean important modification. we got looky in the sense thatwe got looky in the sense that an important modification.we got looky in the sense that thiswe got looky in the sense that this waswe got looky in the sense that this was onlywe got looky in the sense that

this was only propertywe got looky in the sense that this was only property damagethis was only property damage we got looky in the sense thatthis was only property damage althoughthis was only property damage although itthis was only property damage although it wasthis was only property damage although it was obviouslythis was only property damage although it was obviously athis was only property damage although it was obviously a veryalthough it was obviously a very

this was only property damagealthough it was obviously a very significantalthough it was obviously a very significant andalthough it was obviously a very significant and substantialsignificant and substantial although it was obviously a verysignificant and substantial propertysignificant and substantial property damagesignificant and substantial property damage whichsignificant and substantial property damage which issignificant and substantial

property damage which is whysignificant and substantial property damage which is why iproperty damage which is why i significant and substantialproperty damage which is why i wasproperty damage which is why i was comfortableproperty damage which is why i was comfortable directingproperty damage which is why i was comfortable directing staffwas comfortable directing staff property damage which is why iwas comfortable directing staff lastwas comfortable directing staff

last maywas comfortable directing staff last may thatwas comfortable directing staff last may that wewas comfortable directing staff last may that we couldwas comfortable directing staff last may that we could imposelast may that we could impose was comfortable directing stafflast may that we could impose underlast may that we could impose under 25alast may that we could impose under 25a andlast may that we could impose

under 25a and maybelast may that we could impose under 25a and maybe dolast may that we could impose under 25a and maybe do moreunder 25a and maybe do more last may that we could imposeunder 25a and maybe do more becauseunder 25a and maybe do more because --under 25a and maybe do more because -- andunder 25a and maybe do more because -- and iunder 25a and maybe do more because -- and i --under 25a and maybe do more

because -- and i -- andunder 25a and maybe do more because -- and i -- and therebecause -- and i -- and there under 25a and maybe do morebecause -- and i -- and there werebecause -- and i -- and there were otherbecause -- and i -- and there were other instancesbecause -- and i -- and there were other instances ofbecause -- and i -- and there were other instances of this.were other instances of this. because -- and i -- and therewere other instances of this.

i dowere other instances of this. i do knowwere other instances of this. i do know thatwere other instances of this. i do know that company,were other instances of this. i do know that company, andwere other instances of this. i do know that company, and ii do know that company, and i were other instances of this.i do know that company, and i wouldi do know that company, and i would sayi do know that company, and i

would say nationali do know that company, and i would say national gridi do know that company, and i would say national grid becausewould say national grid because i do know that company, and iwould say national grid because it'swould say national grid because it's notwould say national grid because it's not justwould say national grid because it's not just naimo,would say national grid because it's not just naimo, butwould say national grid because

it's not just naimo, but theit's not just naimo, but the would say national grid becauseit's not just naimo, but the otherit's not just naimo, but the other subsidiaryit's not just naimo, but the other subsidiary andit's not just naimo, but the other subsidiary and i'veit's not just naimo, but the other subsidiary and i've hadother subsidiary and i've had it's not just naimo, but theother subsidiary and i've had theseother subsidiary and i've had

these otherother subsidiary and i've had these other problemsother subsidiary and i've had these other problems inother subsidiary and i've had these other problems in theother subsidiary and i've had these other problems in the pastthese other problems in the past other subsidiary and i've hadthese other problems in the past and havethese other problems in the past and have changedthese other problems in the past and have changed itsthese other problems in the past

and have changed its proceduresand have changed its procedures these other problems in the pastand have changed its procedures basedand have changed its procedures based onand have changed its procedures based on andand have changed its procedures based on and hasand have changed its procedures based on and has improvedand have changed its procedures based on and has improved inbased on and has improved in and have changed its proceduresbased on and has improved in

termsbased on and has improved in terms ofbased on and has improved in terms of makingbased on and has improved in terms of making certainbased on and has improved in terms of making certain thatbased on and has improved in terms of making certain that weterms of making certain that we based on and has improved interms of making certain that we don'tterms of making certain that we don't haveterms of making certain that we

don't have homesterms of making certain that we don't have homes thatterms of making certain that we don't have homes that areterms of making certain that we don't have homes that are emptydon't have homes that are empty terms of making certain that wedon't have homes that are empty wheredon't have homes that are empty where theredon't have homes that are empty where there isdon't have homes that are empty where there is gasdon't have homes that are empty

where there is gas flowing.where there is gas flowing. don't have homes that are emptywhere there is gas flowing. iwhere there is gas flowing. i thinkwhere there is gas flowing. i think that'swhere there is gas flowing. i think that's verywhere there is gas flowing. i think that's very important,i think that's very important, where there is gas flowing.i think that's very important, andi think that's very important,

and ii think that's very important, and i alsoi think that's very important, and i also thinki think that's very important, and i also think thati think that's very important, and i also think that thei think that's very important, and i also think that the otherand i also think that the other i think that's very important,and i also think that the other termsand i also think that the other terms includingand i also think that the other

terms including usingand i also think that the other terms including using aterms including using a and i also think that the otherterms including using a technologyterms including using a technology thatterms including using a technology that wouldterms including using a technology that would helpterms including using a technology that would help withtechnology that would help with terms including using atechnology that would help with

thesetechnology that would help with these hardtechnology that would help with these hard turnoffstechnology that would help with these hard turnoffs istechnology that would help with these hard turnoffs is atechnology that would help with these hard turnoffs is a greatthese hard turnoffs is a great technology that would help withthese hard turnoffs is a great thing,these hard turnoffs is a great thing, butthese hard turnoffs is a great

thing, but ithese hard turnoffs is a great thing, but i) certain that the full $500,000effect is on the shareholders waseffect is on the shareholders was importanteffect is on the shareholders was important toeffect is on the shareholders was important to me,effect is on the shareholders was important to me, andeffect is on the shareholders was important to me, and that'swas important to me, and that's

effect is on the shareholderswas important to me, and that's makingwas important to me, and that's making surewas important to me, and that's making sure thatwas important to me, and that's making sure that thewas important to me, and that's making sure that the taxwas important to me, and that's making sure that the tax effectmaking sure that the tax effect was important to me, and that'smaking sure that the tax effect was notmaking sure that the tax effect

was not amaking sure that the tax effect was not a waymaking sure that the tax effect was not a way tomaking sure that the tax effect was not a way to minimizemaking sure that the tax effect was not a way to minimize thatwas not a way to minimize that making sure that the tax effectwas not a way to minimize that andwas not a way to minimize that and thatwas not a way to minimize that and that waswas not a way to minimize that

and that was importantwas not a way to minimize that and that was important andwas not a way to minimize that and that was important and atand that was important and at was not a way to minimize thatand that was important and at leastand that was important and at least forand that was important and at least for meand that was important and at least for me i'mand that was important and at least for me i'm comfortableand that was important and at

least for me i'm comfortable inleast for me i'm comfortable in and that was important and atleast for me i'm comfortable in acceptingleast for me i'm comfortable in accepting theleast for me i'm comfortable in accepting the recommendedaccepting the recommended least for me i'm comfortable inaccepting the recommended positionaccepting the recommended position andaccepting the recommended position and notaccepting the recommended

position and not j.p.accepting the recommended position and not j.p. itself.position and not j.p. itself. accepting the recommendedposition and not j.p. itself. i justposition and not j.p. itself. i just wantposition and not j.p. itself. i just want toposition and not j.p. itself. i just want to beposition and not j.p. itself. i just want to be clearposition and not j.p. itself. i just want to be clear onposition and not j.p. itself.

i just want to be clear on this.i just want to be clear on this. position and not j.p. itself.i just want to be clear on this. thei just want to be clear on this. the companyi just want to be clear on this. the company hasi just want to be clear on this. the company has ani just want to be clear on this. the company has an opportunitythe company has an opportunity i just want to be clear on this.the company has an opportunity nowthe company has an opportunity

now tothe company has an opportunity now to makethe company has an opportunity now to make athe company has an opportunity now to make a determinationnow to make a determination the company has an opportunitynow to make a determination whethernow to make a determination whether tonow to make a determination whether to acceptnow to make a determination whether to accept ornow to make a determination

whether to accept or rejectnow to make a determination whether to accept or reject thewhether to accept or reject the now to make a determinationwhether to accept or reject the decisionwhether to accept or reject the decision because,whether to accept or reject the decision because, obviouslywhether to accept or reject the decision because, obviously it'sdecision because, obviously it's whether to accept or reject thedecision because, obviously it's notdecision because, obviously it's

not signeddecision because, obviously it's not signed ondecision because, obviously it's not signed on todecision because, obviously it's not signed on to thisdecision because, obviously it's not signed on to this decision.not signed on to this decision. decision because, obviously it'snot signed on to this decision. it's onlynot signed on to this decision. it's only signednot signed on to this decision. it's only signed onnot signed on to this decision.

it's only signed on tonot signed on to this decision. it's only signed on to thenot signed on to this decision. it's only signed on to the jointit's only signed on to the joint not signed on to this decision.it's only signed on to the joint it's only signed on to the jointproposal. whatproposal. what happensproposal. what happens ifproposal. what happens if theyproposal.

what happens if they acceptproposal. what happens if they accept it?what happens if they accept it? proposal.what happens if they accept it? dowhat happens if they accept it? do theywhat happens if they accept it? do they havewhat happens if they accept it? do they have towhat happens if they accept it? do they have to comewhat happens if they accept it? do they have to come backwhat happens if they accept it?

do they have to come back towhat happens if they accept it? do they have to come back to thedo they have to come back to the what happens if they accept it?do they have to come back to the commission?commission? do they have to come back to thecommission? >>commission? >> no.>> no. commission?>> no. >>>> no.

>> and>> no. >> and what>> no. >> and what happens>> no. >> and what happens if>> no. >> and what happens if they>> and what happens if they >> no.>> and what happens if they reject>> and what happens if they reject it?reject it? >> and what happens if theyreject it?

>> ifreject it? >> if theyreject it? >> if they rejectreject it? >> if they reject itreject it? >> if they reject it thenreject it? >> if they reject it then we>> if they reject it then we reject it?>> if they reject it then we have>> if they reject it then we have to>> if they reject it then we

have to implement>> if they reject it then we have to implement the>> if they reject it then we have to implement the originalhave to implement the original >> if they reject it then wehave to implement the original orderhave to implement the original order andhave to implement the original order and therehave to implement the original order and there wouldhave to implement the original order and there would beorder and there would be

have to implement the originalorder and there would be preparationsorder and there would be preparations byorder and there would be preparations by bothorder and there would be preparations by both partiesorder and there would be preparations by both parties forpreparations by both parties for order and there would bepreparations by both parties for a hearing.a hearing. preparations by both parties fora hearing.

ita hearing. it doesn'ta hearing. it doesn't havea hearing. it doesn't have toa hearing. it doesn't have to bea hearing. it doesn't have to be anit doesn't have to be an a hearing.it doesn't have to be an evidentiaryit doesn't have to be an evidentiary hearingit doesn't have to be an

evidentiary hearing andit doesn't have to be an evidentiary hearing and theevidentiary hearing and the it doesn't have to be anevidentiary hearing and the resultevidentiary hearing and the result ofevidentiary hearing and the result of theevidentiary hearing and the result of the hearingevidentiary hearing and the result of the hearing wouldevidentiary hearing and the result of the hearing would comeresult of the hearing would come

evidentiary hearing and theresult of the hearing would come backresult of the hearing would come back toresult of the hearing would come back to theresult of the hearing would come back to the commission.back to the commission. result of the hearing would comeback to the commission. >>back to the commission. back to the commission.>> okay. anythank you.

any furtherthank you. any further questionsthank you. any further questions orany further questions or thank you.any further questions or commentsany further questions or comments onany further questions or comments on thisany further questions or comments on this matter?comments on this matter? any further questions orcomments on this matter?

yes?yes? comments on this matter?yes? asyes? as everybodyyes? as everybody hasyes? as everybody has beenyes? as everybody has been sayingyes? as everybody has been saying allas everybody has been saying all yes?as everybody has been saying all

dayas everybody has been saying all day weas everybody has been saying all day we takeas everybody has been saying all day we take thisas everybody has been saying all day we take this extremelyday we take this extremely as everybody has been saying allday we take this extremely seriouslyday we take this extremely seriously andday we take this extremely seriously and thisday we take this extremely

seriously and this proposesday we take this extremely seriously and this proposes theseriously and this proposes the day we take this extremelyseriously and this proposes the maximumseriously and this proposes the maximum statutoryseriously and this proposes the maximum statutory amountseriously and this proposes the maximum statutory amount andseriously and this proposes the maximum statutory amount and imaximum statutory amount and i seriously and this proposes themaximum statutory amount and i

concurmaximum statutory amount and i concur withmaximum statutory amount and i concur with thatmaximum statutory amount and i concur with that undermaximum statutory amount and i concur with that under theconcur with that under the maximum statutory amount and iconcur with that under the circumstances.circumstances. concur with that under thecircumstances. incircumstances.

in fact,circumstances. in fact, we'recircumstances. in fact, we're gettingcircumstances. in fact, we're getting ain fact, we're getting a circumstances.in fact, we're getting a that we otherwise wouldn't getto fund a pilot program that would hopefullyto fund a pilot program that would hopefully preventto fund a pilot program that would hopefully prevent thiswould hopefully prevent this

to fund a pilot program thatwould hopefully prevent this kindwould hopefully prevent this kind ofwould hopefully prevent this kind of explosionwould hopefully prevent this kind of explosion inwould hopefully prevent this kind of explosion in thewould hopefully prevent this kind of explosion in the future.kind of explosion in the future. would hopefully prevent thiskind of explosion in the future. i thinkkind of explosion in the future.

i think that'skind of explosion in the future. i think that's morekind of explosion in the future. i think that's more inkind of explosion in the future. i think that's more in thei think that's more in the kind of explosion in the future.i think that's more in the publici think that's more in the public interesti think that's more in the public interest thani think that's more in the public interest than puttingi think that's more in the

public interest than putting apublic interest than putting a i think that's more in thepublic interest than putting a penaltypublic interest than putting a penalty amountpublic interest than putting a penalty amount intopublic interest than putting a penalty amount into thepublic interest than putting a penalty amount into the state'spenalty amount into the state's public interest than putting apenalty amount into the state's generalpenalty amount into the state's

general fundpenalty amount into the state's general fund withoutpenalty amount into the state's general fund without anypenalty amount into the state's general fund without any rategeneral fund without any rate penalty amount into the state'sgeneral fund without any rate payergeneral fund without any rate payer benefitgeneral fund without any rate payer benefit whichgeneral fund without any rate payer benefit which isgeneral fund without any rate

payer benefit which is whatgeneral fund without any rate payer benefit which is what thepayer benefit which is what the general fund without any ratepayer benefit which is what the alternativepayer benefit which is what the alternative wouldpayer benefit which is what the alternative would bepayer benefit which is what the alternative would be sopayer benefit which is what the alternative would be so ialternative would be so i payer benefit which is what thealternative would be so i

supportalternative would be so i support thisalternative would be so i support this item.support this item. alternative would be so isupport this item. >>support this item. >> thanksupport this item. support this item.>> thank you. >> commissioner?>> commissioner? >> thank you.>> commissioner?

>> commissioner>> commissioner? >> commissioner berman?>> commissioner berman? >> commissioner?>> commissioner berman? >> thank>> commissioner berman? >> commissioner berman?>> thank you. first,>> thank you. first, i>> thank you. first, i would>> thank you. first, i would like>> thank you.

first, i would like to>> thank you. first, i would like to thank>> thank you. first, i would like to thank thefirst, i would like to thank the >> thank you.first, i would like to thank the firstfirst, i would like to thank the first respondersfirst, i would like to thank the first responders whofirst, i would like to thank the first responders who putfirst, i would like to thank the first responders who put theirfirst responders who put their

first, i would like to thank thefirst responders who put their safetyfirst responders who put their safety abovefirst responders who put their safety above allfirst responders who put their safety above all allfirst responders who put their safety above all all insafety above all all in first responders who put theirsafety above all all in respondingsafety above all all in responding tosafety above all all in

responding to thesesafety above all all in responding to these andsafety above all all in responding to these and workresponding to these and work safety above all all inresponding to these and work togetherresponding to these and work together toresponding to these and work together to makeresponding to these and work together to make sureresponding to these and work together to make sure thatresponding to these and work

together to make sure that theytogether to make sure that they responding to these and worktogether to make sure that they aretogether to make sure that they are doingtogether to make sure that they are doing alltogether to make sure that they are doing all theytogether to make sure that they are doing all they cantogether to make sure that they are doing all they can ortogether to make sure that they are doing all they can or areare doing all they can or are

together to make sure that theyare doing all they can or are properlyare doing all they can or are properly trainedare doing all they can or are properly trained toare doing all they can or are properly trained to respondare doing all they can or are properly trained to respond toproperly trained to respond to are doing all they can or areproperly trained to respond to these.these. properly trained to respond tothese.

thethese. the otherthese. the other --these. the other -- asthese. the other -- as wethese. the other -- as we said,these. the other -- as we said, thethe other -- as we said, the these.the other -- as we said, the integritythe other -- as we said, the

integrity andthe other -- as we said, the integrity and reliabilitythe other -- as we said, the integrity and reliability ofthe other -- as we said, the integrity and reliability of ourintegrity and reliability of our the other -- as we said, theintegrity and reliability of our naturalintegrity and reliability of our natural gasintegrity and reliability of our natural gas systemintegrity and reliability of our natural gas system isintegrity and reliability of our

natural gas system is paramountnatural gas system is paramount integrity and reliability of ournatural gas system is paramount and atnatural gas system is paramount and at thenatural gas system is paramount and at the corenatural gas system is paramount and at the core ofnatural gas system is paramount and at the core of thatnatural gas system is paramount and at the core of that isand at the core of that is natural gas system is paramountand at the core of that is

safety,and at the core of that is safety, andand at the core of that is safety, and asand at the core of that is safety, and as stateand at the core of that is safety, and as state regulator,safety, and as state regulator, and at the core of that issafety, and as state regulator, i amsafety, and as state regulator, i am dedicatedsafety, and as state regulator, i am dedicated tosafety, and as state regulator,

i am dedicated to workingsafety, and as state regulator, i am dedicated to working withi am dedicated to working with safety, and as state regulator,i am dedicated to working with alli am dedicated to working with all partiesi am dedicated to working with all parties toi am dedicated to working with all parties to continuei am dedicated to working with all parties to continue toi am dedicated to working with all parties to continue to seekall parties to continue to seek

i am dedicated to working withall parties to continue to seek to improveall parties to continue to seek to improve andall parties to continue to seek to improve and enhanceall parties to continue to seek to improve and enhance pipelineto improve and enhance pipeline all parties to continue to seekto improve and enhance pipeline safetyto improve and enhance pipeline safety andto improve and enhance pipeline safety and weto improve and enhance pipeline

safety and we haveto improve and enhance pipeline safety and we have toto improve and enhance pipeline safety and we have to recognizesafety and we have to recognize to improve and enhance pipelinesafety and we have to recognize withsafety and we have to recognize with limitedsafety and we have to recognize with limited resourcessafety and we have to recognize with limited resources thatsafety and we have to recognize with limited resources that wewith limited resources that we

safety and we have to recognizewith limited resources that we mustwith limited resources that we must dowith limited resources that we must do awith limited resources that we must do a greatwith limited resources that we must do a great dealwith limited resources that we must do a great deal andwith limited resources that we must do a great deal and wewith limited resources that we must do a great deal and we mustmust do a great deal and we must

with limited resources that wemust do a great deal and we must bemust do a great deal and we must be lasermust do a great deal and we must be laser focusedmust do a great deal and we must be laser focused onmust do a great deal and we must be laser focused on howmust do a great deal and we must be laser focused on how bestmust do a great deal and we must be laser focused on how best tobe laser focused on how best to must do a great deal and we mustbe laser focused on how best to

maximizebe laser focused on how best to maximize allbe laser focused on how best to maximize all resourcesbe laser focused on how best to maximize all resources tomaximize all resources to be laser focused on how best tomaximize all resources to achievemaximize all resources to achieve ourmaximize all resources to achieve our safetymaximize all resources to achieve our safety goals.achieve our safety goals.

maximize all resources toachieve our safety goals. safetyachieve our safety goals. safety isachieve our safety goals. safety is everyone'sachieve our safety goals. safety is everyone's businesssafety is everyone's business achieve our safety goals.safety is everyone's business andsafety is everyone's business and enforcementsafety is everyone's business and enforcement whensafety is everyone's business

and enforcement when theresafety is everyone's business and enforcement when there issafety is everyone's business and enforcement when there is aand enforcement when there is a safety is everyone's businessand enforcement when there is a violationand enforcement when there is a violation isand enforcement when there is a violation is important.violation is important. and enforcement when there is aviolation is important. thisviolation is important.

this doesviolation is important. this does sendviolation is important. this does send aviolation is important. this does send a messageviolation is important. this does send a message thatviolation is important. this does send a message that wethis does send a message that we violation is important.this does send a message that we willthis does send a message that we will vigorouslythis does send a message that we

will vigorously enforcethis does send a message that we will vigorously enforce whenwill vigorously enforce when this does send a message that wewill vigorously enforce when needed,will vigorously enforce when needed, andwill vigorously enforce when needed, and wewill vigorously enforce when needed, and we willwill vigorously enforce when needed, and we will workwill vigorously enforce when needed, and we will work throughneeded, and we will work through

will vigorously enforce whenneeded, and we will work through challengesneeded, and we will work through challenges andneeded, and we will work through challenges and lookneeded, and we will work through challenges and look toneeded, and we will work through challenges and look to makeneeded, and we will work through challenges and look to make surechallenges and look to make sure needed, and we will work throughchallenges and look to make sure thatchallenges and look to make sure

that wechallenges and look to make sure that we arechallenges and look to make sure that we are focusedchallenges and look to make sure that we are focused onchallenges and look to make sure that we are focused on improvingthat we are focused on improving challenges and look to make surethat we are focused on improving and lookingthat we are focused on improving and looking atthat we are focused on improving and looking at andthat we are focused on improving

and looking at and strivingthat we are focused on improving and looking at and striving forand looking at and striving for that we are focused on improvingand looking at and striving for a zero-incidentand looking at and striving for a zero-incident target.a zero-incident target. and looking at and striving fora zero-incident target. i ama zero-incident target. i am verya zero-incident target. i am very mucha zero-incident target.

i am very much committeda zero-incident target. i am very much committed toi am very much committed to a zero-incident target.i am very much committed to continuei am very much committed to continue toi am very much committed to continue to worki am very much committed to continue to work collaborativelycontinue to work collaboratively i am very much committed tocontinue to work collaboratively withcontinue to work collaboratively

with everyonecontinue to work collaboratively with everyone involved,continue to work collaboratively with everyone involved, tocontinue to work collaboratively with everyone involved, to havewith everyone involved, to have continue to work collaborativelywith everyone involved, to have properwith everyone involved, to have proper regulations,with everyone involved, to have proper regulations, policieswith everyone involved, to have proper regulations, policies andproper regulations, policies and

with everyone involved, to haveproper regulations, policies and initiativesproper regulations, policies and initiatives inproper regulations, policies and initiatives in placeproper regulations, policies and initiatives in place thatinitiatives in place that proper regulations, policies andinitiatives in place that provideinitiatives in place that provide meaningfulinitiatives in place that provide meaningful advancementsprovide meaningful advancements

initiatives in place thatprovide meaningful advancements forprovide meaningful advancements for pipelineprovide meaningful advancements for pipeline safety.for pipeline safety. provide meaningful advancementsfor pipeline safety. i willfor pipeline safety. i will justfor pipeline safety. i will just pointfor pipeline safety. i will just point outfor pipeline safety.

i will just point out onefor pipeline safety. i will just point out one thingi will just point out one thing for pipeline safety.i will just point out one thing in herei will just point out one thing in here whichi will just point out one thing in here which isi will just point out one thing in here which is focusedi will just point out one thing in here which is focused oni will just point out one thing in here which is focused on thein here which is focused on the

i will just point out one thingin here which is focused on the inside,in here which is focused on the inside, outsidein here which is focused on the inside, outside meters.inside, outside meters. in here which is focused on theinside, outside meters. thatinside, outside meters. that isinside, outside meters. that is alsoinside, outside meters. that is also aninside, outside meters.

that is also an areainside, outside meters. that is also an area thatinside, outside meters. that is also an area that isthat is also an area that is inside, outside meters.that is also an area that is focusedthat is also an area that is focused onthat is also an area that is focused on lookingthat is also an area that is focused on looking atthat is also an area that is focused on looking at whatthat is also an area that is

focused on looking at what itfocused on looking at what it that is also an area that isfocused on looking at what it meansfocused on looking at what it means whenfocused on looking at what it means when wefocused on looking at what it means when we sayfocused on looking at what it means when we say we'refocused on looking at what it means when we say we're feasiblemeans when we say we're feasible focused on looking at what itmeans when we say we're feasible

andmeans when we say we're feasible and whatmeans when we say we're feasible and what aremeans when we say we're feasible and what are themeans when we say we're feasible and what are the challengesmeans when we say we're feasible and what are the challenges inand what are the challenges in means when we say we're feasibleand what are the challenges in inside/outsideand what are the challenges in inside/outside meters.inside/outside meters.

and what are the challenges ininside/outside meters. it'sinside/outside meters. it's notinside/outside meters. it's not justinside/outside meters. it's not just thisinside/outside meters. it's not just this companyinside/outside meters. it's not just this company thatit's not just this company that inside/outside meters.it's not just this company that isit's not just this company that

is experiencingit's not just this company that is experiencing it,it's not just this company that is experiencing it, butit's not just this company that is experiencing it, but itit's not just this company that is experiencing it, but it isis experiencing it, but it is it's not just this company thatis experiencing it, but it is aboutis experiencing it, but it is about usis experiencing it, but it is about us asis experiencing it, but it is

about us as regulatorsis experiencing it, but it is about us as regulators andis experiencing it, but it is about us as regulators and withabout us as regulators and with is experiencing it, but it isabout us as regulators and with theabout us as regulators and with the industryabout us as regulators and with the industry asabout us as regulators and with the industry as wellabout us as regulators and with the industry as well asabout us as regulators and with

the industry as well as withabout us as regulators and with the industry as well as with thethe industry as well as with the about us as regulators and withthe industry as well as with the affectedthe industry as well as with the affected folksthe industry as well as with the affected folks tothe industry as well as with the affected folks to workthe industry as well as with the affected folks to work together,affected folks to work together, the industry as well as with theaffected folks to work together,

butaffected folks to work together, but toaffected folks to work together, but to understandaffected folks to work together, but to understand thataffected folks to work together, but to understand that thebut to understand that the affected folks to work together,but to understand that the primarybut to understand that the primary focusbut to understand that the primary focus isbut to understand that the

primary focus is onbut to understand that the primary focus is on safetybut to understand that the primary focus is on safety andprimary focus is on safety and but to understand that theprimary focus is on safety and whatprimary focus is on safety and what weprimary focus is on safety and what we needprimary focus is on safety and what we need toprimary focus is on safety and what we need to doprimary focus is on safety and

what we need to do toprimary focus is on safety and what we need to do to ensureprimary focus is on safety and what we need to do to ensure andwhat we need to do to ensure and primary focus is on safety andwhat we need to do to ensure and notwhat we need to do to ensure and not compromisewhat we need to do to ensure and not compromise thatwhat we need to do to ensure and not compromise that safety.not compromise that safety. what we need to do to ensure andnot compromise that safety.

thanknot compromise that safety. not compromise that safety.thank you. >> thankthank you. not compromise that safety.>> thank you. we>> thank you. thank you.>> thank you. we are>> thank you. we are ready>> thank you. we are ready to>> thank you.

we are ready to move>> thank you. we are ready to move for>> thank you. we are ready to move for a>> thank you. we are ready to move for a vote,we are ready to move for a vote, >> thank you.we are ready to move for a vote, then.then. we are ready to move for a vote,then. allthen. all thosethen.

all those inthen. all those in favorthen. all those in favor ofthen. all those in favor of itemthen. all those in favor of item 102all those in favor of item 102 then.all those in favor of item 102 pleaseall those in favor of item 102 please indicateall those in favor of item 102 please indicate byall those in favor of item 102

please indicate by sayingall those in favor of item 102 all those in favor of item 102please indicate by saying aye. >> hearing>> opposed? >> hearing no>> opposed? >> hearing no opposition>> opposed? >> hearing no opposition the>> hearing no opposition the >> opposed?>> hearing no opposition the recommendation>> hearing no opposition the recommendation is>> hearing no opposition the

recommendation is adopted>> hearing no opposition the recommendation is adopted andrecommendation is adopted and >> hearing no opposition therecommendation is adopted and we'rerecommendation is adopted and we're nowrecommendation is adopted and we're now goingrecommendation is adopted and we're now going torecommendation is adopted and we're now going to moverecommendation is adopted and we're now going to move onrecommendation is adopted and

we're now going to move on towe're now going to move on to recommendation is adopted andwe're now going to move on to itemwe're now going to move on to item 201we're now going to move on to item 201 whichwe're now going to move on to item 201 which iswe're now going to move on to item 201 which is relatedwe're now going to move on to item 201 which is related toitem 201 which is related to we're now going to move on toitem 201 which is related to

energyitem 201 which is related to energy serviceitem 201 which is related to energy service companies.energy service companies. item 201 which is related toenergy service companies. related to low-incomeenergy service companies. related to low-income customersrelated to low-income customers energy service companies.related to low-income customers andrelated to low-income customers and mr.related to low-income customers

and mr. dwyerrelated to low-income customers and mr. dwyer andrelated to low-income customers and mr. dwyer and assistantrelated to low-income customers and mr. dwyer and assistant willand mr. dwyer and assistant will related to low-income customersand mr. dwyer and assistant will beand mr. dwyer and assistant will be presentedand mr. dwyer and assistant will be presented toand mr. dwyer and assistant will be presented to luand mr. dwyer and assistant will

be presented to lu annand mr. dwyer and assistant will be presented to lu ann sharesbe presented to lu ann shares and mr. dwyer and assistant willbe presented to lu ann shares and thebe presented to lu ann shares and the directorbe presented to lu ann shares and the director ofbe presented to lu ann shares and the director of officebe presented to lu ann shares and the director of office ofand the director of office of be presented to lu ann sharesand the director of office of

consumerand the director of office of consumer servicesand the director of office of consumer services isand the director of office of consumer services is availableconsumer services is available and the director of office ofconsumer services is available forconsumer services is available for questionsconsumer services is available for questions andconsumer services is available for questions and tom,consumer services is available

for questions and tom, asconsumer services is available for questions and tom, as soonfor questions and tom, as soon consumer services is availablefor questions and tom, as soon asfor questions and tom, as soon as you'refor questions and tom, as soon as you're ready.as you're ready. for questions and tom, as soonas you're ready. thisas you're ready. this isas you're ready.

this is anotheras you're ready. this is another formas you're ready. this is another form ofas you're ready. this is another form of aas you're ready. this is another form of a kabukithis is another form of a kabuki as you're ready.this is another form of a kabuki dance.dance. this is another form of a kabukidance. shoodance.

shoo gooddance. shoo good morningdance. shoo good morning ordance. shoo good morning or goodshoo good morning or good dance.shoo good morning or good afternoon.afternoon. shoo good morning or goodafternoon. commissioners,afternoon. commissioners, itemafternoon.

commissioners, item 201afternoon. commissioners, item 201 relatescommissioners, item 201 relates afternoon.commissioners, item 201 relates incommissioners, item 201 relates in partcommissioners, item 201 relates in part tocommissioners, item 201 relates in part to thecommissioners, item 201 relates in part to the orderscommissioners, item 201 relates in part to the orders issuedcommissioners, item 201 relates

in part to the orders issued byin part to the orders issued by commissioners, item 201 relatesin part to the orders issued by thein part to the orders issued by the commissionin part to the orders issued by the commission inin part to the orders issued by the commission in julyin part to the orders issued by the commission in july andthe commission in july and in part to the orders issued bythe commission in july and septemberthe commission in july and

september ofthe commission in july and september of thisthe commission in july and september of this year.september of this year. the commission in july andseptember of this year. the septemberseptember of this year. the september orderseptember of this year. the september order adoptedseptember of this year. the september order adopted athe september order adopted a september of this year.the september order adopted a

moratoriumthe september order adopted a moratorium tothe september order adopted a moratorium to lowthe september order adopted a moratorium to low incomemoratorium to low income the september order adopted amoratorium to low income customersmoratorium to low income customers onmoratorium to low income customers on anmoratorium to low income customers on an emergencymoratorium to low income

customers on an emergency basiscustomers on an emergency basis moratorium to low incomecustomers on an emergency basis andcustomers on an emergency basis and atcustomers on an emergency basis and at thecustomers on an emergency basis and at the samecustomers on an emergency basis and at the same timecustomers on an emergency basis and at the same time issuedcustomers on an emergency basis and at the same time issued aand at the same time issued a

customers on an emergency basisand at the same time issued a noticeand at the same time issued a notice ofand at the same time issued a notice of proposedand at the same time issued a notice of proposed ruleand at the same time issued a notice of proposed rule makingnotice of proposed rule making and at the same time issued anotice of proposed rule making tonotice of proposed rule making to considernotice of proposed rule making

to consider amongnotice of proposed rule making to consider among othernotice of proposed rule making to consider among other thingsto consider among other things notice of proposed rule makingto consider among other things convertingto consider among other things converting theto consider among other things converting the moratorium'sto consider among other things converting the moratorium's toto consider among other things converting the moratorium's to aconverting the moratorium's to a

to consider among other thingsconverting the moratorium's to a prohibitionconverting the moratorium's to a prohibition andconverting the moratorium's to a prohibition and that'sconverting the moratorium's to a prohibition and that's whatconverting the moratorium's to a prohibition and that's what theprohibition and that's what the converting the moratorium's to aprohibition and that's what the proposedprohibition and that's what the proposed itemprohibition and that's what the

proposed item beforeprohibition and that's what the proposed item before youprohibition and that's what the proposed item before you todayproposed item before you today prohibition and that's what theproposed item before you today does.does. proposed item before you todaydoes. thedoes. the itemdoes. the item addressesdoes.

the item addresses twothe item addresses two does.the item addresses two fundamentalthe item addresses two fundamental concernsthe item addresses two fundamental concerns firstthe item addresses two fundamental concerns first thatfundamental concerns first that the item addresses twofundamental concerns first that low-incomefundamental concerns first that low-income escrowfundamental concerns first that

low-income escrow customersfundamental concerns first that low-income escrow customers arelow-income escrow customers are fundamental concerns first thatlow-income escrow customers are generallylow-income escrow customers are generally payinglow-income escrow customers are generally paying morelow-income escrow customers are generally paying more forlow-income escrow customers are generally paying more for gasgenerally paying more for gas low-income escrow customers aregenerally paying more for gas

andgenerally paying more for gas and electricitygenerally paying more for gas and electricity thangenerally paying more for gas and electricity than theygenerally paying more for gas and electricity than they wouldand electricity than they would generally paying more for gasand electricity than they would haveand electricity than they would have ifand electricity than they would have if theyand electricity than they would

have if they hadand electricity than they would have if they had receivedand electricity than they would have if they had received fullhave if they had received full and electricity than they wouldhave if they had received full utilityhave if they had received full utility servicehave if they had received full utility service andhave if they had received full utility service and two,have if they had received full utility service and two, thatutility service and two, that

have if they had received fullutility service and two, that rateutility service and two, that rate payerutility service and two, that rate payer andutility service and two, that rate payer and taxpayerutility service and two, that rate payer and taxpayer programsrate payer and taxpayer programs utility service and two, thatrate payer and taxpayer programs that providerate payer and taxpayer programs that provide subsidyrate payer and taxpayer programs

that provide subsidy oslorate payer and taxpayer programs that provide subsidy oslo incomethat provide subsidy oslo income rate payer and taxpayer programsthat provide subsidy oslo income custodythat provide subsidy oslo income custody billsthat provide subsidy oslo income custody bills arethat provide subsidy oslo income custody bills are frustratedcustody bills are frustrated that provide subsidy oslo incomecustody bills are frustrated whencustody bills are frustrated

when thecustody bills are frustrated when the customercustody bills are frustrated when the customer receivescustody bills are frustrated when the customer receives morewhen the customer receives more custody bills are frustratedwhen the customer receives more expensivewhen the customer receives more expensive escrowwhen the customer receives more expensive escrow service.expensive escrow service. when the customer receives moreexpensive escrow service.

the commissionerexpensive escrow service. the commissioner issuedexpensive escrow service. the commissioner issued thesethe commissioner issued these expensive escrow service.the commissioner issued these proceedingsthe commissioner issued these proceedings inthe commissioner issued these proceedings in septemberproceedings in september the commissioner issued theseproceedings in september providingproceedings in september

providing partiesproceedings in september providing parties withproceedings in september providing parties with anproviding parties with an proceedings in septemberproviding parties with an opportunityproviding parties with an opportunity toproviding parties with an opportunity to commentproviding parties with an opportunity to comment andopportunity to comment and providing parties with anopportunity to comment and

provideopportunity to comment and provide aopportunity to comment and provide a basisopportunity to comment and provide a basis foropportunity to comment and provide a basis for theprovide a basis for the opportunity to comment andprovide a basis for the commissionprovide a basis for the commission toprovide a basis for the commission to revisitprovide a basis for the

commission to revisit thecommission to revisit the provide a basis for thecommission to revisit the actionscommission to revisit the actions takencommission to revisit the actions taken incommission to revisit the actions taken in september.actions taken in september. commission to revisit theactions taken in september. inactions taken in september. in additionactions taken in september.

in addition andactions taken in september. in addition and separateactions taken in september. in addition and separate fromin addition and separate from actions taken in september.in addition and separate from thein addition and separate from the effortsin addition and separate from the efforts toin addition and separate from the efforts to addressthe efforts to address in addition and separate fromthe efforts to address

overchargesthe efforts to address overcharges tothe efforts to address overcharges to lowthe efforts to address overcharges to low incomeovercharges to low income the efforts to addressovercharges to low income customers,overcharges to low income customers, thereovercharges to low income customers, there areovercharges to low income customers, there are effortscustomers, there are efforts

overcharges to low incomecustomers, there are efforts undercustomers, there are efforts under waycustomers, there are efforts under way tocustomers, there are efforts under way to ensurecustomers, there are efforts under way to ensure thatcustomers, there are efforts under way to ensure that theunder way to ensure that the customers, there are effortsunder way to ensure that the retailunder way to ensure that the

retail marketsunder way to ensure that the retail markets areunder way to ensure that the retail markets are resultingunder way to ensure that the retail markets are resulting inretail markets are resulting in under way to ensure that theretail markets are resulting in justretail markets are resulting in just andretail markets are resulting in just and reasonableretail markets are resulting in just and reasonable ratesretail markets are resulting in

just and reasonable rates forjust and reasonable rates for retail markets are resulting injust and reasonable rates for thejust and reasonable rates for the largerjust and reasonable rates for the larger populationjust and reasonable rates for the larger population ofjust and reasonable rates for the larger population of massthe larger population of mass just and reasonable rates forthe larger population of mass marketthe larger population of mass

market customers.market customers. the larger population of massmarket customers. the secretarymarket customers. the secretary issuedmarket customers. the secretary issued amarket customers. the secretary issued a noticethe secretary issued a notice market customers.the secretary issued a notice recentlythe secretary issued a notice recently thatthe secretary issued a notice

recently that establishedrecently that established the secretary issued a noticerecently that established evidentiaryrecently that established evidentiary hearingsrecently that established evidentiary hearings thatrecently that established evidentiary hearings that willevidentiary hearings that will recently that establishedevidentiary hearings that will comprehensivelyevidentiary hearings that will comprehensively addressevidentiary hearings that will

comprehensively address thecomprehensively address the evidentiary hearings that willcomprehensively address the concernscomprehensively address the concerns withcomprehensively address the concerns with thecomprehensively address the concerns with the retailcomprehensively address the concerns with the retail marketconcerns with the retail market comprehensively address theconcerns with the retail market forconcerns with the retail market

for thatconcerns with the retail market for that largerconcerns with the retail market for that larger groupconcerns with the retail market for that larger group offor that larger group of concerns with the retail marketfor that larger group of customersfor that larger group of customers andfor that larger group of customers and stafffor that larger group of customers and staff proposescustomers and staff proposes

for that larger group ofcustomers and staff proposes that thecustomers and staff proposes that the issuecustomers and staff proposes that the issue ofcustomers and staff proposes that the issue of escrowcustomers and staff proposes that the issue of escrow servicethat the issue of escrow service customers and staff proposesthat the issue of escrow service to low-incomethat the issue of escrow service to low-income customersthat the issue of escrow service

to low-income customers maythat the issue of escrow service to low-income customers may beto low-income customers may be that the issue of escrow serviceto low-income customers may be revisitedto low-income customers may be revisited onceto low-income customers may be revisited once anyto low-income customers may be revisited once any necessaryrevisited once any necessary to low-income customers may berevisited once any necessary reformsrevisited once any necessary

reforms haverevisited once any necessary reforms have beenrevisited once any necessary reforms have been maderevisited once any necessary reforms have been made torevisited once any necessary reforms have been made to thereforms have been made to the revisited once any necessaryreforms have been made to the broaderreforms have been made to the broader retailreforms have been made to the broader retail marketreforms have been made to the

broader retail market pursuantbroader retail market pursuant reforms have been made to thebroader retail market pursuant to thatbroader retail market pursuant to that process.to that process. broader retail market pursuantto that process. >>to that process. >> forto that process. >> for theto that process. >> for the timeto that process.

>> for the time being,to that process. >> for the time being, however,>> for the time being, however, to that process.>> for the time being, however, the>> for the time being, however, the proposed>> for the time being, however, the proposed item>> for the time being, however, the proposed item before>> for the time being, however, the proposed item before youthe proposed item before you >> for the time being, however,the proposed item before you

todaythe proposed item before you today wouldthe proposed item before you today would stopthe proposed item before you today would stop thethe proposed item before you today would stop the dilutionthe proposed item before you today would stop the dilution oftoday would stop the dilution of the proposed item before youtoday would stop the dilution of the benefitstoday would stop the dilution of the benefits providedtoday would stop the dilution of

the benefits provided tothe benefits provided to today would stop the dilution ofthe benefits provided to low-incomethe benefits provided to low-income customers.low-income customers. the benefits provided tolow-income customers. stafflow-income customers. staff haslow-income customers. staff has continuedlow-income customers. staff has continued tolow-income customers.

staff has continued to worklow-income customers. staff has continued to work onstaff has continued to work on low-income customers.staff has continued to work on thesestaff has continued to work on these issuesstaff has continued to work on these issues andstaff has continued to work on these issues and hasstaff has continued to work on these issues and has concludedthese issues and has concluded staff has continued to work onthese issues and has concluded

thatthese issues and has concluded that despitethese issues and has concluded that despite thethese issues and has concluded that despite the effortsthese issues and has concluded that despite the efforts tothat despite the efforts to these issues and has concludedthat despite the efforts to implementthat despite the efforts to implement thethat despite the efforts to implement the commission'sthat despite the efforts to

implement the commission's 2014implement the commission's 2014 that despite the efforts toimplement the commission's 2014 directivesimplement the commission's 2014 directives thatimplement the commission's 2014 directives that theyimplement the commission's 2014 directives that they providedirectives that they provide implement the commission's 2014directives that they provide costdirectives that they provide cost savingsdirectives that they provide

cost savings todirectives that they provide cost savings to lowdirectives that they provide cost savings to low incomecost savings to low income directives that they providecost savings to low income customerscost savings to low income customers andcost savings to low income customers and thosecost savings to low income customers and those customerscustomers and those customers cost savings to low incomecustomers and those customers

arecustomers and those customers are stillcustomers and those customers are still payingcustomers and those customers are still paying morecustomers and those customers are still paying more forcustomers and those customers are still paying more for gasare still paying more for gas customers and those customersare still paying more for gas and electricityare still paying more for gas and electricity thanare still paying more for gas

and electricity than theyare still paying more for gas are still paying more for gasand electricity than they would otherwiseand electricity than they would otherwise payand electricity than they would otherwise pay forand electricity than they would otherwise pay for fulland electricity than they would otherwise pay for full utilityotherwise pay for full utility and electricity than they wouldotherwise pay for full utility serviceotherwise pay for full utility

service customers.service customers. otherwise pay for full utilityservice customers. theyservice customers. they wereservice customers. they were receivedservice customers. they were received pursuantservice customers. they were received pursuant tothey were received pursuant to service customers.they were received pursuant to thethey were received pursuant to

the mostthey were received pursuant to the most recentthey were received pursuant to the most recent sapathey were received pursuant to the most recent sapa andthey were received pursuant to the most recent sapa and they'rethe most recent sapa and they're they were received pursuant tothe most recent sapa and they're partthe most recent sapa and they're part ofthe most recent sapa and they're part of thethe most recent sapa and they're

part of the staffthe most recent sapa and they're part of the staff investigationpart of the staff investigation the most recent sapa and they'repart of the staff investigation havepart of the staff investigation have justificationpart of the staff investigation have justification thatpart of the staff investigation have justification that thehave justification that the part of the staff investigationhave justification that the moratoriumhave justification that the

moratorium shouldhave justification that the moratorium should bemoratorium should be have justification that themoratorium should be discontinued.discontinued. moratorium should bediscontinued. sodiscontinued. so accordingly,discontinued. so accordingly, staffdiscontinued. so accordingly, staff proposesso accordingly, staff proposes

discontinued.so accordingly, staff proposes thatso accordingly, staff proposes that theso accordingly, staff proposes that the moratoriumso accordingly, staff proposes that the moratorium onso accordingly, staff proposes that the moratorium on escrowthat the moratorium on escrow so accordingly, staff proposesthat the moratorium on escrow servicethat the moratorium on escrow service tothat the moratorium on escrow

service to lowthat the moratorium on escrow service to low incomethat the moratorium on escrow service to low income customersservice to low income customers that the moratorium on escrowservice to low income customers beservice to low income customers be convertedservice to low income customers be converted toservice to low income customers be converted to aservice to low income customers be converted to a prohibition.be converted to a prohibition.

service to low income customersbe converted to a prohibition. thatbe converted to a prohibition. that said,be converted to a prohibition. that said, itbe converted to a prohibition. that said, it wouldbe converted to a prohibition. that said, it would wherebe converted to a prohibition. that said, it would where escrowthat said, it would where escrow be converted to a prohibition.that said, it would where escrow couldthat said, it would where escrow

could providethat said, it would where escrow could provide athat said, it would where escrow could provide a prohibitionthat said, it would where escrow could provide a prohibition ifcould provide a prohibition if that said, it would where escrowcould provide a prohibition if it cancould provide a prohibition if it can demonstratecould provide a prohibition if it can demonstrate thatcould provide a prohibition if it can demonstrate that itcould provide a prohibition if

it can demonstrate that it couldit can demonstrate that it could could provide a prohibition ifit can demonstrate that it could provide a guaranteedit can demonstrate that it could provide a guaranteed savingsit can demonstrate that it could provide a guaranteed savings toprovide a guaranteed savings to it can demonstrate that it couldprovide a guaranteed savings to lowprovide a guaranteed savings to low incomeprovide a guaranteed savings to low income customers.low income customers.

provide a guaranteed savings tolow income customers. thelow income customers. the overalllow income customers. the overall goallow income customers. the overall goal oflow income customers. the overall goal of thislow income customers. the overall goal of this orderthe overall goal of this order low income customers.the overall goal of this order isthe overall goal of this order

is tothe overall goal of this order is to ensurethe overall goal of this order is to ensure thatthe overall goal of this order is to ensure that customersthe overall goal of this order is to ensure that customers whois to ensure that customers who the overall goal of this orderis to ensure that customers who receiveis to ensure that customers who receive ais to ensure that customers who receive a subsidyis to ensure that customers who

receive a subsidy tois to ensure that customers who receive a subsidy to theirreceive a subsidy to their is to ensure that customers whoreceive a subsidy to their energyreceive a subsidy to their energy billsreceive a subsidy to their energy bills alsoreceive a subsidy to their energy bills also receivereceive a subsidy to their energy bills also receive mostenergy bills also receive most receive a subsidy to theirenergy bills also receive most

costenergy bills also receive most cost effectiveenergy bills also receive most cost effective serviceenergy bills also receive most cost effective service soenergy bills also receive most cost effective service so thatcost effective service so that energy bills also receive mostcost effective service so that thosecost effective service so that those programcost effective service so that those program fundscost effective service so that

those program funds canthose program funds can cost effective service so thatthose program funds can effectivelythose program funds can effectively reducethose program funds can effectively reduce theirthose program funds can effectively reduce their energyeffectively reduce their energy those program funds caneffectively reduce their energy burdeneffectively reduce their energy burden andeffectively reduce their energy

burden and ensureeffectively reduce their energy burden and ensure thateffectively reduce their energy burden and ensure that theburden and ensure that the effectively reduce their energyburden and ensure that the customerburden and ensure that the customer maintainsburden and ensure that the customer maintains essentialcustomer maintains essential burden and ensure that thecustomer maintains essential service.service.

customer maintains essentialservice. thatservice. that concludesservice. that concludes myservice. that concludes my presentationthat concludes my presentation service.that concludes my presentation onthat concludes my presentation on thisthat concludes my presentation on this itemthat concludes my presentation

on this item andthat concludes my presentation on this item and luannthat concludes my presentation on this item and luann andthat concludes my presentation on this item and luann and ithat concludes my presentation on this item and luann and i areon this item and luann and i are that concludes my presentationon this item and luann and i are hereon this item and luann and i are here toon this item and luann and i are here to answeron this item and luann and i are

here to answer anyon this item and luann and i are here to answer any questionson this item and luann and i are here to answer any questions youhere to answer any questions you on this item and luann and i arehere to answer any questions you mayhere to answer any questions you may have.may have. here to answer any questions youmay have. >>may have. >> thankmay have.

>> thank you,may have. >> thank you, mr.may have. >> thank you, mr. dwyer.>> thank you, mr. dwyer. may have.>> thank you, mr. dwyer. i>> thank you, mr. dwyer. i personally>> thank you, mr. dwyer. i personally feel>> thank you, mr. dwyer. i personally feel like>> thank you, mr. dwyer. i personally feel like this>> thank you, mr. dwyer.

i personally feel like this is>> thank you, mr. dwyer. i personally feel like this is ai personally feel like this is a >> thank you, mr. dwyer.i personally feel like this is a very,i personally feel like this is a very, veryi personally feel like this is a very, very sensiblei personally feel like this is a very, very sensible approach.very, very sensible approach. i personally feel like this is avery, very sensible approach. thevery, very sensible approach.

the commissionvery, very sensible approach. the commission hasvery, very sensible approach. the commission has madevery, very sensible approach. the commission has made athe commission has made a very, very sensible approach.the commission has made a determinationthe commission has made a determination earlierthe commission has made a determination earlier thisthe commission has made a determination earlier this yeardetermination earlier this year

the commission has made adetermination earlier this year thatdetermination earlier this year that itdetermination earlier this year that it madedetermination earlier this year that it made nodetermination earlier this year that it made no sensedetermination earlier this year that it made no sense fordetermination earlier this year that it made no sense for lowthat it made no sense for low determination earlier this yearthat it made no sense for low

incomethat it made no sense for low income customersthat it made no sense for low income customers whothat it made no sense for low income customers who arethat it made no sense for low income customers who are alreadyincome customers who are already that it made no sense for lowincome customers who are already receivingincome customers who are already receiving aincome customers who are already receiving a subsidyincome customers who are already

receiving a subsidy inincome customers who are already receiving a subsidy in theincome customers who are already receiving a subsidy in the formreceiving a subsidy in the form income customers who are alreadyreceiving a subsidy in the form ofreceiving a subsidy in the form of areceiving a subsidy in the form of a federalreceiving a subsidy in the form of a federal programreceiving a subsidy in the form of a federal program orreceiving a subsidy in the form

of a federal program or aof a federal program or a receiving a subsidy in the formof a federal program or a subsidy in termsof a federal program or a subsidy in terms ofof a federal program or a subsidy in terms of theof a federal program or a subsidy in terms of the statesubsidy in terms of the state of a federal program or asubsidy in terms of the state program throughsubsidy in terms of the state program through asubsidy in terms of the state

program through a ratesubsidy in terms of the state program through a rate discountprogram through a rate discount subsidy in terms of the stateprogram through a rate discount toprogram through a rate discount to experienceprogram through a rate discount to experience higherprogram through a rate discount to experience higher buildsprogram through a rate discount to experience higher builds asprogram through a rate discount to experience higher builds as ato experience higher builds as a

program through a rate discountto experience higher builds as a resultto experience higher builds as a result ofto experience higher builds as a result of takingto experience higher builds as a result of taking serviceto experience higher builds as a result of taking service fromto experience higher builds as a result of taking service from anresult of taking service from an to experience higher builds as aresult of taking service from an escrowresult of taking service from an

escrow andresult of taking service from an escrow and soresult of taking service from an escrow and so asresult of taking service from an escrow and so as aresult of taking service from an escrow and so as a result,result of taking service from an escrow and so as a result, weescrow and so as a result, we result of taking service from anescrow and so as a result, we placeescrow and so as a result, we place theescrow and so as a result, we

place the moratoriumescrow and so as a result, we place the moratorium becauseescrow and so as a result, we place the moratorium because ofplace the moratorium because of escrow and so as a result, weplace the moratorium because of theplace the moratorium because of the evidenceplace the moratorium because of the evidence weplace the moratorium because of the evidence we hadplace the moratorium because of the evidence we had isplace the moratorium because of

the evidence we had is thatthe evidence we had is that place the moratorium because ofthe evidence we had is that thesethe evidence we had is that these customersthe evidence we had is that these customers werethe evidence we had is that these customers were beingthese customers were being the evidence we had is thatthese customers were being chargedthese customers were being charged morethese customers were being

charged more thanthese customers were being charged more than theythese customers were being charged more than they wouldcharged more than they would these customers were beingcharged more than they would havecharged more than they would have hadcharged more than they would have had hadcharged more than they would have had had theycharged more than they would have had had they stayedcharged more than they would

have had had they stayed withhave had had they stayed with charged more than they wouldhave had had they stayed with the utility.the utility. have had had they stayed withthe utility. sincethe utility. since thatthe utility. since that time,the utility. since that time, thethe utility. since that time, the staffthe utility.

since that time, the staff hassince that time, the staff has the utility.since that time, the staff has donesince that time, the staff has done additionalsince that time, the staff has done additional researchsince that time, the staff has done additional research whichdone additional research which since that time, the staff hasdone additional research which has confirmeddone additional research which has confirmed thisdone additional research which

has confirmed this information.has confirmed this information. done additional research whichhas confirmed this information. i thinkhas confirmed this information. i think luannhas confirmed this information. i think luann canhas confirmed this information. i think luann can talkhas confirmed this information. i think luann can talk whathas confirmed this information. i think luann can talk what theyi think luann can talk what they has confirmed this information.i think luann can talk what they

didi think luann can talk what they did overi think luann can talk what they did over many,i think luann can talk what they did over many, manyi think luann can talk what they did over many, many monthsi think luann can talk what they did over many, many months whendid over many, many months when i think luann can talk what theydid over many, many months when comparingdid over many, many months when comparing applesdid over many, many months when

comparing apples todid over many, many months when comparing apples to applesdid over many, many months when comparing apples to apples anddid over many, many months when comparing apples to apples and icomparing apples to apples and i did over many, many months whencomparing apples to apples and i thinkcomparing apples to apples and i think iscomparing apples to apples and i think is wecomparing apples to apples and i think is we foundcomparing apples to apples and i

think is we found itcomparing apples to apples and i think is we found it wascomparing apples to apples and i think is we found it was closethink is we found it was close comparing apples to apples and ithink is we found it was close to $1think is we found it was close to $1 billionthink is we found it was close to $1 billion inthink is we found it was close to $1 billion in overchargesto $1 billion in overcharges think is we found it was closeto $1 billion in overcharges

statewideto $1 billion in overcharges statewide throughto $1 billion in overcharges statewide through escrowstatewide through escrow to $1 billion in overchargesstatewide through escrow payment.payment. statewide through escrowpayment. >>payment. >> thatpayment. >> that beingpayment.

>> that being said,payment. >> that being said, wepayment. >> that being said, we arepayment. >> that being said, we are very,>> that being said, we are very, payment.>> that being said, we are very, very>> that being said, we are very, very committed>> that being said, we are very, very committed to>> that being said, we are very, very committed to figuring>> that being said, we are very,

very committed to figuring outvery committed to figuring out >> that being said, we are very,very committed to figuring out howvery committed to figuring out how tovery committed to figuring out how to createvery committed to figuring out how to create avery committed to figuring out how to create a marketvery committed to figuring out how to create a market forhow to create a market for very committed to figuring outhow to create a market for

residentialhow to create a market for residential andhow to create a market for residential and smallhow to create a market for residential and small commercialresidential and small commercial how to create a market forresidential and small commercial businessesresidential and small commercial businesses thatresidential and small commercial businesses that escrowsresidential and small commercial businesses that escrows canbusinesses that escrows can

residential and small commercialbusinesses that escrows can providebusinesses that escrows can provide servicesbusinesses that escrows can provide services thatbusinesses that escrows can provide services that arebusinesses that escrows can provide services that are trulyprovide services that are truly businesses that escrows canprovide services that are truly ofprovide services that are truly of value,provide services that are truly

of value, thatprovide services that are truly of value, that theprovide services that are truly of value, that the commissionof value, that the commission provide services that are trulyof value, that the commission whenof value, that the commission when itof value, that the commission when it openedof value, that the commission when it opened upof value, that the commission when it opened up theseof value, that the commission

when it opened up these marketswhen it opened up these markets of value, that the commissionwhen it opened up these markets inwhen it opened up these markets in thewhen it opened up these markets in the 1990swhen it opened up these markets in the 1990s madewhen it opened up these markets in the 1990s made awhen it opened up these markets in the 1990s made a presumptionin the 1990s made a presumption when it opened up these marketsin the 1990s made a presumption

thatin the 1990s made a presumption that competitivein the 1990s made a presumption that competitive retailersin the 1990s made a presumption that competitive retailers inthat competitive retailers in in the 1990s made a presumptionthat competitive retailers in the marketthat competitive retailers in the market wouldthat competitive retailers in the market would providethat competitive retailers in the market would provide energythe market would provide energy

that competitive retailers inthe market would provide energy efficiencythe market would provide energy efficiency servicesthe market would provide energy efficiency services andefficiency services and the market would provide energyefficiency services and potentiallyefficiency services and potentially priceefficiency services and potentially price pricingpotentially price pricing efficiency services andpotentially price pricing

benefitspotentially price pricing benefits topotentially price pricing benefits to allpotentially price pricing benefits to all consumers.benefits to all consumers. potentially price pricingbenefits to all consumers. thebenefits to all consumers. the studybenefits to all consumers. the study onbenefits to all consumers. the study on thisbenefits to all consumers.

the study on this isbenefits to all consumers. the study on this is thatbenefits to all consumers. the study on this is that it'sthe study on this is that it's benefits to all consumers.the study on this is that it's notthe study on this is that it's not beenthe study on this is that it's not been realizedthe study on this is that it's not been realized andthe study on this is that it's not been realized and thatnot been realized and that

the study on this is that it'snot been realized and that doesn'tnot been realized and that doesn't meannot been realized and that doesn't mean thatnot been realized and that doesn't mean that wenot been realized and that doesn't mean that we don'tnot been realized and that doesn't mean that we don't thinkdoesn't mean that we don't think not been realized and thatdoesn't mean that we don't think there'sdoesn't mean that we don't think

there's potential,doesn't mean that we don't think there's potential, butdoesn't mean that we don't think there's potential, but atdoesn't mean that we don't think there's potential, but at thethere's potential, but at the doesn't mean that we don't thinkthere's potential, but at the samethere's potential, but at the same timethere's potential, but at the same time we'rethere's potential, but at the same time we're openthere's potential, but at the

same time we're open tothere's potential, but at the same time we're open to thethere's potential, but at the same time we're open to the factsame time we're open to the fact there's potential, but at thesame time we're open to the fact thatsame time we're open to the fact that ifsame time we're open to the fact that if wesame time we're open to the fact that if we can'tsame time we're open to the fact that if we can't getsame time we're open to the fact

that if we can't get there,same time we're open to the fact that if we can't get there, wethat if we can't get there, we same time we're open to the factthat if we can't get there, we don'tthat if we can't get there, we don't wantthat if we can't get there, we don't want tothat if we can't get there, we don't want to continuethat if we can't get there, we don't want to continue tothat if we can't get there, we don't want to continue to exposedon't want to continue to expose

that if we can't get there, wedon't want to continue to expose peopledon't want to continue to expose people todon't want to continue to expose people to thisdon't want to continue to expose people to this kinddon't want to continue to expose people to this kind ofpeople to this kind of don't want to continue to exposepeople to this kind of dissatisfactionpeople to this kind of dissatisfaction andpeople to this kind of

dissatisfaction and frankly,dissatisfaction and frankly, people to this kind ofdissatisfaction and frankly, economicdissatisfaction and frankly, economic harm.economic harm. dissatisfaction and frankly,economic harm. soeconomic harm. so ieconomic harm. so i thinkeconomic harm. so i think thateconomic harm.

so i think that theeconomic harm. so i think that the wayeconomic harm. so i think that the way weeconomic harm. so i think that the way we areso i think that the way we are economic harm.so i think that the way we are processingso i think that the way we are processing thisso i think that the way we are processing this isso i think that the way we are processing this is toso i think that the way we are

processing this is to haveso i think that the way we are processing this is to have anprocessing this is to have an so i think that the way we areprocessing this is to have an evidentiaryprocessing this is to have an evidentiary proceedingprocessing this is to have an evidentiary proceeding asprocessing this is to have an evidentiary proceeding as wellevidentiary proceeding as well processing this is to have anevidentiary proceeding as well asevidentiary proceeding as well

as otherevidentiary proceeding as well as other actionsevidentiary proceeding as well as other actions thatevidentiary proceeding as well as other actions that theas other actions that the evidentiary proceeding as wellas other actions that the secretaryas other actions that the secretary sentas other actions that the secretary sent outas other actions that the secretary sent out inas other actions that the

secretary sent out in heras other actions that the secretary sent out in her noticesecretary sent out in her notice as other actions that thesecretary sent out in her notice sosecretary sent out in her notice so thatsecretary sent out in her notice so that wesecretary sent out in her notice so that we cansecretary sent out in her notice so that we can reallysecretary sent out in her notice so that we can really looksecretary sent out in her notice

so that we can really look atso that we can really look at secretary sent out in her noticeso that we can really look at thisso that we can really look at this market,so that we can really look at this market, doso that we can really look at this market, do thethis market, do the so that we can really look atthis market, do the investigationthis market, do the investigation andthis market, do the

investigation and maybethis market, do the investigation and maybe comethis market, do the investigation and maybe come up,investigation and maybe come up, this market, do theinvestigation and maybe come up, andinvestigation and maybe come up, and iinvestigation and maybe come up, and i hopeinvestigation and maybe come up, and i hope weinvestigation and maybe come up, and i hope we doinvestigation and maybe come up,

and i hope we do comeinvestigation and maybe come up, and i hope we do come upinvestigation and maybe come up, and i hope we do come up withand i hope we do come up with investigation and maybe come up,and i hope we do come up with realand i hope we do come up with real solutions.real solutions. and i hope we do come up withreal solutions. i'vereal solutions. i've hadreal solutions.

i've had areal solutions. i've had a numberreal solutions. i've had a number ofreal solutions. i've had a number of escrowsi've had a number of escrows real solutions.i've had a number of escrows comei've had a number of escrows come toi've had a number of escrows come to mei've had a number of escrows come to me andi've had a number of escrows

come to me and talki've had a number of escrows come to me and talk about,i've had a number of escrows come to me and talk about, one,come to me and talk about, one, i've had a number of escrowscome to me and talk about, one, theircome to me and talk about, one, their frustrationcome to me and talk about, one, their frustration aboutcome to me and talk about, one, their frustration about thecome to me and talk about, one, their frustration about the facttheir frustration about the fact

come to me and talk about, one,their frustration about the fact thattheir frustration about the fact that theytheir frustration about the fact that they dotheir frustration about the fact that they do nottheir frustration about the fact that they do not liketheir frustration about the fact that they do not like ittheir frustration about the fact that they do not like it whenthat they do not like it when their frustration about the factthat they do not like it when

somethat they do not like it when some ofthat they do not like it when some of theirthat they do not like it when some of their otherthat they do not like it when some of their other peoplethat they do not like it when some of their other people insome of their other people in that they do not like it whensome of their other people in the marketsome of their other people in the market reallysome of their other people in

the market really destroyedthe market really destroyed some of their other people inthe market really destroyed their brandthe market really destroyed their brand bythe market really destroyed their brand by puttingthe market really destroyed their brand by putting customerstheir brand by putting customers the market really destroyedtheir brand by putting customers intheir brand by putting customers in harm'stheir brand by putting customers

in harm's waytheir brand by putting customers in harm's way andtheir brand by putting customers in harm's way and sotheir brand by putting customers in harm's way and so they'rein harm's way and so they're their brand by putting customersin harm's way and so they're looking,in harm's way and so they're looking, frankly,in harm's way and so they're looking, frankly, forin harm's way and so they're looking, frankly, for ain harm's way and so they're

looking, frankly, for a betterlooking, frankly, for a better in harm's way and so they'relooking, frankly, for a better setlooking, frankly, for a better set oflooking, frankly, for a better set of ruleslooking, frankly, for a better set of rules andlooking, frankly, for a better set of rules and welooking, frankly, for a better set of rules and we talkedlooking, frankly, for a better set of rules and we talked aboutset of rules and we talked about

looking, frankly, for a betterset of rules and we talked about theset of rules and we talked about the valueset of rules and we talked about the value they'dset of rules and we talked about the value they'd likeset of rules and we talked about the value they'd like toset of rules and we talked about the value they'd like to providethe value they'd like to provide set of rules and we talked aboutthe value they'd like to provide inthe value they'd like to provide

in termsthe value they'd like to provide in terms ofthe value they'd like to provide in terms of energythe value they'd like to provide in terms of energy efficiencyin terms of energy efficiency the value they'd like to providein terms of energy efficiency andin terms of energy efficiency and otherin terms of energy efficiency and other servicesin terms of energy efficiency and other services thatin terms of energy efficiency

and other services that canin terms of energy efficiency and other services that can helpand other services that can help in terms of energy efficiencyand other services that can help customersand other services that can help customers manageand other services that can help customers manage theirand other services that can help customers manage their belland other services that can help customers manage their bellsand other services that can help customers manage their bells anand other services that can help

customers manage their bell scustomers manage their bell s and other services that can helpcustomers manage their bell s and havecustomers manage their bell s and have morecustomers manage their bell s and have more choicecustomers manage their bell s and have more choice incustomers manage their bell s and have more choice in termscustomers manage their bell s and have more choice in terms ofand have more choice in terms of customers manage their bell sand have more choice in terms of

electricityand have more choice in terms of electricity andand have more choice in terms of electricity and gas.electricity and gas. and have more choice in terms ofelectricity and gas. soelectricity and gas. so ielectricity and gas. so i remainelectricity and gas. so i remain theelectricity and gas. so i remain the eternalelectricity and gas.

so i remain the eternal optimistso i remain the eternal optimist electricity and gas.so i remain the eternal optimist hereso i remain the eternal optimist here thatso i remain the eternal optimist here that we'llso i remain the eternal optimist here that we'll getso i remain the eternal optimist here that we'll get itso i remain the eternal optimist here that we'll get it rightso i remain the eternal optimist here that we'll get it right andhere that we'll get it right and

so i remain the eternal optimisthere that we'll get it right and we'llhere that we'll get it right and we'll behere that we'll get it right and we'll be ablehere that we'll get it right and we'll be able tohere that we'll get it right and we'll be able to gethere that we'll get it right and we'll be able to get there,here that we'll get it right and we'll be able to get there, butwe'll be able to get there, but here that we'll get it right andwe'll be able to get there, but

it willwe'll be able to get there, but it will requirewe'll be able to get there, but it will require awe'll be able to get there, but it will require a concentratedit will require a concentrated we'll be able to get there, butit will require a concentrated effortit will require a concentrated effort andit will require a concentrated effort and commitmentit will require a concentrated effort and commitment onit will require a concentrated

effort and commitment on alleffort and commitment on all it will require a concentratedeffort and commitment on all partieseffort and commitment on all parties toeffort and commitment on all parties to reallyeffort and commitment on all parties to really comeeffort and commitment on all parties to really come upeffort and commitment on all parties to really come up withparties to really come up with effort and commitment on allparties to really come up with

solutionsparties to really come up with solutions andparties to really come up with solutions and that'sparties to really come up with solutions and that's whatparties to really come up with solutions and that's what thissolutions and that's what this parties to really come up withsolutions and that's what this processsolutions and that's what this process issolutions and that's what this process is about.process is about.

solutions and that's what thisprocess is about. inprocess is about. in theprocess is about. in the interum,process is about. in the interum, iprocess is about. in the interum, i don'tprocess is about. in the interum, i don't seeprocess is about. in the interum, i don't see anyin the interum, i don't see any process is about.in the interum, i don't see any

reasonin the interum, i don't see any reason orin the interum, i don't see any reason or anyin the interum, i don't see any reason or any justificationin the interum, i don't see any reason or any justification forreason or any justification for in the interum, i don't see anyreason or any justification for puttingreason or any justification for putting lowreason or any justification for putting low incomereason or any justification for

putting low income customersreason or any justification for putting low income customers whoputting low income customers who reason or any justification forputting low income customers who areputting low income customers who are alreadyputting low income customers who are already challengedputting low income customers who are already challenged withare already challenged with putting low income customers whoare already challenged with payingare already challenged with

paying billsare already challenged with paying bills inare already challenged with paying bills in harm'sare already challenged with paying bills in harm's wayare already challenged with paying bills in harm's way bypaying bills in harm's way by are already challenged withpaying bills in harm's way by forcingpaying bills in harm's way by forcing thempaying bills in harm's way by forcing them andpaying bills in harm's way by

forcing them and unwittinglyforcing them and unwittingly paying bills in harm's way byforcing them and unwittingly paying moreforcing them and unwittingly paying more forforcing them and unwittingly paying more for gasforcing them and unwittingly paying more for gas serviceforcing them and unwittingly paying more for gas service thanpaying more for gas service than forcing them and unwittinglypaying more for gas service than necessarypaying more for gas service than

necessary andpaying more for gas service than necessary and certainly,paying more for gas service than necessary and certainly, it'spaying more for gas service than necessary and certainly, it's tonecessary and certainly, it's to paying more for gas service thannecessary and certainly, it's to menecessary and certainly, it's to me againstnecessary and certainly, it's to me against thenecessary and certainly, it's to me against the publicnecessary and certainly, it's to

me against the public interestme against the public interest necessary and certainly, it's tome against the public interest forme against the public interest for taxpayersme against the public interest for taxpayers whoseme against the public interest for taxpayers whose moneyme against the public interest for taxpayers whose money isfor taxpayers whose money is me against the public interestfor taxpayers whose money is goingfor taxpayers whose money is

going tofor taxpayers whose money is going to highfor taxpayers whose money is going to high energyfor taxpayers whose money is going to high energy assistancegoing to high energy assistance for taxpayers whose money isgoing to high energy assistance programsgoing to high energy assistance programs whichgoing to high energy assistance programs which igoing to high energy assistance programs which i thinkgoing to high energy assistance

programs which i think aregoing to high energy assistance programs which i think are veryprograms which i think are very going to high energy assistanceprograms which i think are very valuableprograms which i think are very valuable orprograms which i think are very valuable or low-incomeprograms which i think are very valuable or low-income countsprograms which i think are very valuable or low-income counts tovaluable or low-income counts to programs which i think are veryvaluable or low-income counts to

findvaluable or low-income counts to find thatvaluable or low-income counts to find that theirvaluable or low-income counts to find that their subsidiesvaluable or low-income counts to find that their subsidies andfind that their subsidies and valuable or low-income counts tofind that their subsidies and thefind that their subsidies and the valuefind that their subsidies and the value offind that their subsidies and

the value of thefind that their subsidies and the value of the subsidyfind that their subsidies and the value of the subsidy isthe value of the subsidy is find that their subsidies andthe value of the subsidy is beingthe value of the subsidy is being diminishedthe value of the subsidy is being diminished becausethe value of the subsidy is being diminished because abeing diminished because a the value of the subsidy isbeing diminished because a

retailerbeing diminished because a retailer isbeing diminished because a retailer is makingbeing diminished because a retailer is making moneybeing diminished because a retailer is making money offbeing diminished because a retailer is making money off ofretailer is making money off of being diminished because aretailer is making money off of thoseretailer is making money off of those customersretailer is making money off of

those customers byretailer is making money off of those customers by chargingretailer is making money off of those customers by charging themthose customers by charging them retailer is making money off ofthose customers by charging them morethose customers by charging them more moneythose customers by charging them more money thanthose customers by charging them more money than necessarythose customers by charging them more money than necessary formore money than necessary for

those customers by charging themmore money than necessary for the samemore money than necessary for the same service.the same service. more money than necessary forthe same service. sothe same service. so forthe same service. so for thatthe same service. so for that reasonthe same service. so for that reason theso for that reason the

the same service.so for that reason the conversionso for that reason the conversion ofso for that reason the conversion of theso for that reason the conversion of the moratoriumso for that reason the conversion of the moratorium forconversion of the moratorium for so for that reason theconversion of the moratorium for a permanentconversion of the moratorium for a permanent prohibitionconversion of the moratorium for

a permanent prohibition isa permanent prohibition is conversion of the moratorium fora permanent prohibition is appropriate.appropriate. a permanent prohibition isappropriate. asappropriate. as inappropriate. as in allappropriate. as in all cases,appropriate. as in all cases, onceappropriate.

as in all cases, once weappropriate. as in all cases, once we figureas in all cases, once we figure appropriate.as in all cases, once we figure out,as in all cases, once we figure out, ias in all cases, once we figure out, i think,as in all cases, once we figure out, i think, theas in all cases, once we figure out, i think, the rulesas in all cases, once we figure out, i think, the rules foras in all cases, once we figure

out, i think, the rules for theout, i think, the rules for the as in all cases, once we figureout, i think, the rules for the marketout, i think, the rules for the market atout, i think, the rules for the market at large,out, i think, the rules for the market at large, weout, i think, the rules for the market at large, we willout, i think, the rules for the market at large, we will comemarket at large, we will come out, i think, the rules for themarket at large, we will come

backmarket at large, we will come back tomarket at large, we will come back to seemarket at large, we will come back to see howmarket at large, we will come back to see how wemarket at large, we will come back to see how we canmarket at large, we will come back to see how we can applyback to see how we can apply market at large, we will comeback to see how we can apply thisback to see how we can apply

this toback to see how we can apply this to lowback to see how we can apply this to low incomeback to see how we can apply this to low income soback to see how we can apply this to low income so forback to see how we can apply this to low income so for thosethis to low income so for those back to see how we can applythis to low income so for those whothis to low income so for those who saythis to low income so for those

who say whythis to low income so for those who say why wouldthis to low income so for those who say why would youthis to low income so for those who say why would you deprivewho say why would you deprive this to low income so for thosewho say why would you deprive low-incomewho say why would you deprive low-income peoplewho say why would you deprive low-income people ofwho say why would you deprive low-income people of theselow-income people of these

who say why would you deprivelow-income people of these opportunities?opportunities? low-income people of theseopportunities? weopportunities? we won't,opportunities? we won't, iopportunities? we won't, i don'topportunities? we won't, i don't thinkopportunities? we won't, i don't think weopportunities?

we won't, i don't think we will,we won't, i don't think we will, opportunities?we won't, i don't think we will, butwe won't, i don't think we will, but firstwe won't, i don't think we will, but first wewe won't, i don't think we will, but first we needwe won't, i don't think we will, but first we need towe won't, i don't think we will, but first we need to findwe won't, i don't think we will, but first we need to find whatbut first we need to find what

we won't, i don't think we will,but first we need to find what arebut first we need to find what are thebut first we need to find what are the opportunitiesbut first we need to find what are the opportunities webut first we need to find what are the opportunities we wantbut first we need to find what are the opportunities we want toare the opportunities we want to but first we need to find whatare the opportunities we want to achieveare the opportunities we want to

achieve andare the opportunities we want to achieve and howare the opportunities we want to achieve and how doare the opportunities we want to achieve and how do weare the opportunities we want to achieve and how do we achieveachieve and how do we achieve are the opportunities we want toachieve and how do we achieve themachieve and how do we achieve them inachieve and how do we achieve them in aachieve and how do we achieve

them in a goodachieve and how do we achieve them in a good way.them in a good way. achieve and how do we achievethem in a good way. >>them in a good way. >> inthem in a good way. >> in thethem in a good way. >> in the interimthem in a good way. >> in the interim itthem in a good way. >> in the interim it does>> in the interim it does

them in a good way.>> in the interim it does provide>> in the interim it does provide limited>> in the interim it does provide limited opportunity>> in the interim it does provide limited opportunity forprovide limited opportunity for >> in the interim it doesprovide limited opportunity for the escrowsprovide limited opportunity for the escrows toprovide limited opportunity for the escrows to sayprovide limited opportunity for

the escrows to say they'rethe escrows to say they're provide limited opportunity forthe escrows to say they're willingthe escrows to say they're willing tothe escrows to say they're willing to guaranteethe escrows to say they're willing to guarantee savings.willing to guarantee savings. the escrows to say they'rewilling to guarantee savings. ifwilling to guarantee savings. if you'rewilling to guarantee savings.

if you're willingwilling to guarantee savings. if you're willing towilling to guarantee savings. if you're willing to guaranteeif you're willing to guarantee willing to guarantee savings.if you're willing to guarantee savings andif you're willing to guarantee savings and you'reif you're willing to guarantee savings and you're capableif you're willing to guarantee savings and you're capable ofsavings and you're capable of if you're willing to guaranteesavings and you're capable of

showingsavings and you're capable of showing howsavings and you're capable of showing how yousavings and you're capable of showing how you willsavings and you're capable of showing how you will dosavings and you're capable of showing how you will do that,savings and you're capable of showing how you will do that, weshowing how you will do that, we savings and you're capable ofshowing how you will do that, we willshowing how you will do that, we

will allowshowing how you will do that, we will allow youshowing how you will do that, we will allow you toshowing how you will do that, we will allow you to comeshowing how you will do that, we will allow you to come inshowing how you will do that, we will allow you to come in andwill allow you to come in and showing how you will do that, wewill allow you to come in and show uswill allow you to come in and show us howwill allow you to come in and

show us how thatwill allow you to come in and show us how that canwill allow you to come in and show us how that can happenwill allow you to come in and show us how that can happen soshow us how that can happen so will allow you to come in andshow us how that can happen so weshow us how that can happen so we don'tshow us how that can happen so we don't wantshow us how that can happen so we don't want toshow us how that can happen so

we don't want to depriveshow us how that can happen so we don't want to deprive anyonewe don't want to deprive anyone show us how that can happen sowe don't want to deprive anyone ofwe don't want to deprive anyone of awe don't want to deprive anyone of a benefitwe don't want to deprive anyone of a benefit ifwe don't want to deprive anyone of a benefit if itwe don't want to deprive anyone of a benefit if it trulywe don't want to deprive anyone

of a benefit if it truly canwe don't want to deprive anyone of a benefit if it truly can beof a benefit if it truly can be we don't want to deprive anyoneof a benefit if it truly can be a benefit,of a benefit if it truly can be a benefit, butof a benefit if it truly can be a benefit, but atof a benefit if it truly can be a benefit, but at theof a benefit if it truly can be a benefit, but at the sameof a benefit if it truly can be a benefit, but at the same time,a benefit, but at the same time,

of a benefit if it truly can bea benefit, but at the same time, i thinka benefit, but at the same time, i think it'sa benefit, but at the same time, i think it's totallya benefit, but at the same time, i think it's totally appropriatei think it's totally appropriate a benefit, but at the same time,i think it's totally appropriate fori think it's totally appropriate for thisi think it's totally appropriate for this commissioni think it's totally appropriate

for this commission toi think it's totally appropriate for this commission to sayi think it's totally appropriate for this commission to say wefor this commission to say we i think it's totally appropriatefor this commission to say we willfor this commission to say we will notfor this commission to say we will not waterfor this commission to say we will not water downfor this commission to say we will not water down andfor this commission to say we

will not water down and diminishwill not water down and diminish for this commission to say wewill not water down and diminish thewill not water down and diminish the valuewill not water down and diminish the value ofwill not water down and diminish the value of thewill not water down and diminish the value of the discountswill not water down and diminish the value of the discounts northe value of the discounts nor will not water down and diminishthe value of the discounts nor

ofthe value of the discounts nor of thesethe value of the discounts nor of these programsthe value of the discounts nor of these programs bythe value of the discounts nor of these programs by puttingof these programs by putting the value of the discounts norof these programs by putting peopleof these programs by putting people inof these programs by putting people in harm'sof these programs by putting

people in harm's wayof these programs by putting people in harm's way byof these programs by putting people in harm's way by payingpeople in harm's way by paying of these programs by puttingpeople in harm's way by paying morepeople in harm's way by paying more thanpeople in harm's way by paying more than electricpeople in harm's way by paying more than electric andpeople in harm's way by paying more than electric and ipeople in harm's way by paying

more than electric and i seepeople in harm's way by paying more than electric and i see nomore than electric and i see no people in harm's way by payingmore than electric and i see no reasonmore than electric and i see no reason tomore than electric and i see no reason to revisitmore than electric and i see no reason to revisit thatmore than electric and i see no reason to revisit that policyreason to revisit that policy more than electric and i see noreason to revisit that policy

determination,reason to revisit that policy determination, andreason to revisit that policy determination, and ireason to revisit that policy determination, and i thinkreason to revisit that policy determination, and i think thedetermination, and i think the reason to revisit that policydetermination, and i think the processdetermination, and i think the process thatdetermination, and i think the process that wedetermination, and i think the

process that we aredetermination, and i think the process that we are nowdetermination, and i think the process that we are now ondetermination, and i think the process that we are now on isprocess that we are now on is determination, and i think theprocess that we are now on is the appropriateprocess that we are now on is the appropriate process,process that we are now on is the appropriate process, andprocess that we are now on is the appropriate process, and ithe appropriate process, and i

process that we are now on isthe appropriate process, and i wouldthe appropriate process, and i would intendthe appropriate process, and i would intend tothe appropriate process, and i would intend to votethe appropriate process, and i would intend to vote forthe appropriate process, and i would intend to vote for thiswould intend to vote for this the appropriate process, and iwould intend to vote for this item.item.

would intend to vote for thisitem. anyingitem. anying foritem. anying for thoritem. anying for thor questionsitem. anying for thor questions oranying for thor questions or item.anying for thor questions or commentsanying for thor questions or comments onanying for thor questions or

comments on that,anying for thor questions or comments on that, commissioner?comments on that, commissioner? anying for thor questions orcomments on that, commissioner? i completelycomments on that, commissioner? i completely concurcomments on that, commissioner? i completely concur withcomments on that, commissioner? i completely concur with thei completely concur with the comments on that, commissioner?i completely concur with the comments.comments.

i completely concur with thecomments. i'vecomments. i've seencomments. i've seen nothingcomments. i've seen nothing incomments. i've seen nothing in thecomments. i've seen nothing in the waycomments. i've seen nothing in the way ofi've seen nothing in the way of comments.i've seen nothing in the way of

factsi've seen nothing in the way of facts ori've seen nothing in the way of facts or legali've seen nothing in the way of facts or legal argumentsi've seen nothing in the way of facts or legal arguments tofacts or legal arguments to i've seen nothing in the way offacts or legal arguments to convincefacts or legal arguments to convince mefacts or legal arguments to convince me thatfacts or legal arguments to

convince me that wefacts or legal arguments to convince me that we tookfacts or legal arguments to convince me that we took theconvince me that we took the facts or legal arguments toconvince me that we took the wrongconvince me that we took the wrong stepconvince me that we took the wrong step inconvince me that we took the wrong step in julyconvince me that we took the wrong step in july toconvince me that we took the

wrong step in july to putconvince me that we took the wrong step in july to put awrong step in july to put a convince me that we took thewrong step in july to put a moratoriumwrong step in july to put a moratorium onwrong step in july to put a moratorium on escrowwrong step in july to put a moratorium on escrow servicesmoratorium on escrow services wrong step in july to put amoratorium on escrow services andmoratorium on escrow services

and inmoratorium on escrow services and in fact,moratorium on escrow services and in fact, themoratorium on escrow services and in fact, the factsmoratorium on escrow services and in fact, the facts thatmoratorium on escrow services and in fact, the facts that haveand in fact, the facts that have moratorium on escrow servicesand in fact, the facts that have beenand in fact, the facts that have been comingand in fact, the facts that have

been coming inand in fact, the facts that have been coming in indicateand in fact, the facts that have been coming in indicate weand in fact, the facts that have been coming in indicate we werebeen coming in indicate we were and in fact, the facts that havebeen coming in indicate we were right.right. been coming in indicate we wereright. unfortunately,right. unfortunately, weright.

unfortunately, we haveright. unfortunately, we have aright. unfortunately, we have a marketunfortunately, we have a market right.unfortunately, we have a market valueunfortunately, we have a market value andunfortunately, we have a market value and that'sunfortunately, we have a market value and that's theunfortunately, we have a market value and that's the kindunfortunately, we have a market

value and that's the kind ofvalue and that's the kind of unfortunately, we have a marketvalue and that's the kind of situationvalue and that's the kind of situation wherevalue and that's the kind of situation where ourvalue and that's the kind of situation where our jobvalue and that's the kind of situation where our job isvalue and that's the kind of situation where our job is tosituation where our job is to value and that's the kind ofsituation where our job is to

stepsituation where our job is to step insituation where our job is to step in andsituation where our job is to step in and protectsituation where our job is to step in and protect customers.step in and protect customers. situation where our job is tostep in and protect customers. i'm,step in and protect customers. i'm, therefore,step in and protect customers. i'm, therefore, alsostep in and protect customers.

i'm, therefore, also instep in and protect customers. i'm, therefore, also in supporti'm, therefore, also in support step in and protect customers.i'm, therefore, also in support ofi'm, therefore, also in support of thisi'm, therefore, also in support of this item.of this item. i'm, therefore, also in supportof this item. >>of this item. >> thankof this item.

of this item.>> thank you. >> commissioner>> thank you. >> commissioner brennan?>> commissioner brennan? >> thank you.>> commissioner brennan? >> first,>> commissioner brennan? >> first, i>> commissioner brennan? >> first, i would>> commissioner brennan? >> first, i would be>> commissioner brennan? >> first, i would be remiss>> commissioner brennan?

>> first, i would be remiss if>> commissioner brennan? >> first, i would be remiss if i>> first, i would be remiss if i >> commissioner brennan?>> first, i would be remiss if i did>> first, i would be remiss if i did not>> first, i would be remiss if i did not say>> first, i would be remiss if i did not say a>> first, i would be remiss if i did not say a few>> first, i would be remiss if i did not say a few words>> first, i would be remiss if i

did not say a few words in>> first, i would be remiss if i did not say a few words in honordid not say a few words in honor >> first, i would be remiss if idid not say a few words in honor ofdid not say a few words in honor of fogledid not say a few words in honor of fogle whodid not say a few words in honor of fogle who idid not say a few words in honor of fogle who i was,of fogle who i was, did not say a few words in honorof fogle who i was,

unfortunately,of fogle who i was, unfortunately, notof fogle who i was, unfortunately, not ableof fogle who i was, unfortunately, not able tounfortunately, not able to of fogle who i was,unfortunately, not able to attendunfortunately, not able to attend hisunfortunately, not able to attend his memorialunfortunately, not able to attend his memorial serviceunfortunately, not able to

attend his memorial service inattend his memorial service in unfortunately, not able toattend his memorial service in albanyattend his memorial service in albany today.albany today. attend his memorial service inalbany today. sincealbany today. since aboutalbany today. since about 20,albany today. since about 20, andalbany today.

since about 20, and healbany today. since about 20, and he wasalbany today. since about 20, and he was ansince about 20, and he was an albany today.since about 20, and he was an incredible,since about 20, and he was an incredible, dedicatedsince about 20, and he was an incredible, dedicated advocateincredible, dedicated advocate since about 20, and he was anincredible, dedicated advocate and extremelyincredible, dedicated advocate

and extremely wellincredible, dedicated advocate and extremely well likedincredible, dedicated advocate and extremely well liked andand extremely well liked and incredible, dedicated advocateand extremely well liked and evenand extremely well liked and even forand extremely well liked and even for thoseand extremely well liked and even for those whoand extremely well liked and even for those who mayand extremely well liked and

even for those who may haveeven for those who may have and extremely well liked andeven for those who may have disagreedeven for those who may have disagreed vehementlyeven for those who may have disagreed vehemently witheven for those who may have disagreed vehemently with hisdisagreed vehemently with his even for those who may havedisagreed vehemently with his positions.positions. disagreed vehemently with hispositions.

he waspositions. he was kindpositions. he was kind topositions. he was kind to allpositions. he was kind to all --positions. he was kind to all -- sorry.he was kind to all -- sorry. positions.he was kind to all -- sorry. hehe was kind to all -- sorry. he washe was kind to all -- sorry.

he was kindhe was kind to all -- sorry. he was kind tohe was kind to all -- sorry. he was kind to allhe was kind to all -- sorry. he was kind to all especiallyhe was kind to all especially he was kind to all -- sorry.he was kind to all especially thosehe was kind to all especially those whohe was kind to all especially those who werehe was kind to all especially those who were inhe was kind to all especially

those who were in thehe was kind to all especially those who were in the regulatorythose who were in the regulatory he was kind to all especiallythose who were in the regulatory world,those who were in the regulatory world, andthose who were in the regulatory world, and itthose who were in the regulatory world, and it wasthose who were in the regulatory world, and it was athose who were in the regulatory world, and it was a giftthose who were in the regulatory

world, and it was a gift tothose who were in the regulatory world, and it was a gift to allworld, and it was a gift to all those who were in the regulatoryworld, and it was a gift to all who knewworld, and it was a gift to all who knew him.who knew him. world, and it was a gift to allwho knew him. hiswho knew him. his abilitywho knew him. his ability towho knew him.

his ability to thewho knew him. his ability to the continuallyhis ability to the continually who knew him.his ability to the continually allhis ability to the continually all hehis ability to the continually all he couldhis ability to the continually all he could tohis ability to the continually all he could to ensurehis ability to the continually all he could to ensure hehis ability to the continually

all he could to ensure he gaveall he could to ensure he gave his ability to the continuallyall he could to ensure he gave and his memory will be forever.i should have known in the historyi should have known in the history ofi should have known in the history of thei should have known in the history of the wayi should have known in the history of the way wei should have known in the history of the way we havehistory of the way we have

i should have known in thehistory of the way we have workedhistory of the way we have worked collaboratehistory of the way we have worked collaboraivehistory of the way we have worked collaboraivelyhistory of the way we have worked collaboraively withworked collaboraively with history of the way we haveworked collaboraively with escrows.worked collaboraively with escrows. differentworked collaboraively with

escrows. different issuesworked collaboraively with escrows. different issues that would come up in the retailmarket. and the way it was done was adrilling down, working through processes and processes andprocesses and processes and processes and in a collaborativeprocess. and at the end, beingcomfortable that there was resolution on important issues.and knowing that regulation is always changing and that we needto work together on the

different things that may needto be refined. this item talks about theimportance of protecting the low income rate payer.i got into the oil field because of my work with the low incomecommunity. working in the social workfield, dealing with issues related to women who were lowincome and were in abused -- in the shelter for abused women andchildren and working through the different issues and energy andaddressing those issues was something that was a constantissue and i would also be remiss

because we are so focused on lowincome that we take this time to remind folks that for the opened november 14th of 2016.and folks may be eligible for the regular heat benefit programto help them pay their heat to heat their home.and also upcoming the 2016-17 emergency heat benefit since they're eligible, a benefit thatcan help them heat their home. if their heat or heat relatedemergency. and i do hope that our websitewill be updated to make sure

that that information is there.and that we do look at what we can do on our website tohighlight the low income initiatives and programs.if you go to the index, you can't find anywhere to directyou if you're looking for information.so i just point that out. when i look -- i think it'simportant that after the new esco market should not beallowed to continue to do business in new york state.that is an important aspect, to do all we can to ensure that wehave standards of operating

practices in place and that weprovide proper oversight, guidance and opportunity toimprove performance such that we hope to have a slidingmarketplace that protects consumers.this includes addressing the participants that exercise pooror illegal conduct. prior to ending the regulatorydecision we need to ensure that we have properly established arobust record, ensure its due process concerns are addressed,look at unintended consequences for their action and ensure thatwe have the tools necessary to

properly implement our decision.each time that we have looked at these issues, i have made itvery clear that bad actors are not something that we want inthe marketplace. what i am concerned about isthat we have in a broad brush painted the industry in anegative light. we need to carefully take stockof what we have done to not encourage a turn around in areasof enforcement. i am concerned that when i readthis draft order, it takes a broad brush and correctivelytalks about the escos as if they

have not on an individual basisbeen a part of a collaborative process for resolution.in fact, i have taken time to look at each and everycollaborative that will run our website from the webinarperspective or a transcript or a summary perspective.or a summary perspective. and what i have found is thatthere was robust dialogue. there was engagement.in fact, in the collaborative report had two focuses.at the threshold. added.the fixed rate aspect seems to

have dropped off the tablechbltd -- off the table and i'm trying to understand on thatwhy. so first maybe that's the firstquestion we can get some resolution on.>> luann, do you have a response?>> first of all, please address the question.i think we did provide the low -- the escos an opportunityto offer a guaranteed savings program.>> yes, we did. savings, there was a substantialeffort to work with the esco

back in 2014 pursuant to theissue order -- without a guaranteed saves on an energyrelated value added. the work of the collaborativesresulted in the report that was issued i believe in december --november of 2015. there was no solutions and infact the vast majority of the escos indicated that they wereeither on loan or -- on the savings.with regard to the fixed rate product, one of the issues thatwe have been addressing in the collaborative which isidentified in the recent notice

of the separate track isreference pricing because, you know, along with thecommissioner's recognizing that a fixed rate product is a valueadded, but the -- we need to make sure that the fixed rateproduct is a product that will benefit low income customers.so there's an effort to work on reference pricing which is thesecond track. >> so just to be clear, just sowe have not abandoned the fixed rate by any means.i think the challenge that we have and it's a challenge wewant to see addressed is making

sure that when customers areoffered a fixed rate we have a mechanism to ensure that theresulting bill or the rate is just and reasonable and that'swhere the discussion of coming up with a reference price, whichi would assume would be part of the discussions moving forwardis -- in fact, i think it's one of the explicit questions and inotice how to develop that. so i -- i don't think it's beenabandoned. i think the issue is even afixed price, is it higher than necessary and higher than wouldhave been based on a uh-u

have been based on a utilityaverage bill or higher than necessary would be a concern ofmine, especially in a market as opaque as energy.it's hard for customers to understand what's a reasonableprice because unlike going to the grocery store or thedrugstore or even going car shopping, it's hard tocomparison price. so looking for ways to do thatand provide that customer benefit is really important.but it's also customer certainty.i think nobody ever wants to be

in a position where they are putin a position where they are put in a position where they'reasking to buy something and they don't know if they can get thesame product at -- and that they might value at a differentprice. so we need to work on how do weprovide that clarity to consumers.>> so with that, i would say and i will go to the point ofcomments i made at other sessions that i think are astrue today as they were then. i will incorporate by referencemy comments and the discussions

at the february 2016 session,the july 2016 session, and the september 2016 session, and ithink if folks looked at that and see for some of thequestions and dialogue, they would see that there is apathway. however, part of our difficultyis that we have not had a laser focus on robust enforcement oftruly bad actors. and when i look at that, i amconcerned that we are spending more time on regulating by pressrelease than we are by actually looking to see what we can do toensure that we are cleaning up

the market as necessary withoutactually destroying the market and from my perspective, it'simportant. as to the fixed rate piece, whatconfuses me about that more than anything, not only that the lowincome collaborative report seemed to have no issue amongthe parties on the fixed rate aspect.but that the prohibition on the fixed rate contract, "a," seemsodd when after the polar vortex we were very focused onencouraging escos to move all their customers to fixed ratecontracts.

but the other issue i have andit's a disconnect that i can't seem to wrap my arms around isin the community choice aggregation programs i don'tbelieve the fixed rate program is in place for the low incomefolks and i don't understand that.>> one issue is you have a sophisticated community and/orconsultant who is looking at the pricing offerings of the escoand coming one a good deal. something that an ordinarycustomer doesn't have the advantage of.>> okay.

so -->> some of your other concerns i understand them, but as of todaywe can't tell you what's a good fixed rate product for anycustomer. what's a good good rate productfor any customers and in the meantime, low income customerswho are we are subsidizing are overpaying.so while we try to sort out how to create the products millionsof dollars are changing hands from low income customers andhow we can continue to let that go on is beyond me which isreally the whole gut of this

thing.we're going to try to fix the market that failed but in theinterim we're going to get the low income customers out of itand stop the bleeding. that's the essence of the item.>> so when i look at the fixed rate part of it, in thecommunity choice aggregation, i went to westchester's powerwebsite and they have a piece on fixed rate, discussing in thereand i won't have the right -- the specific language, butbasically discussing that fixed rates may not be, you know,as -- it may be higher than your

utility rate.but that the reason you have the fixed rate is for leveling out,to make sure that you know what you're paying.and there is no distinction on looking at it from if you're alow income customer, you shouldn't be paying a fixed rateprice and the fixed rate price may not necessarily be the bestbenefit for you. however, for some it may bebecause they are wanting to have that certainty in there.>> i know that everyone wants to get into a debate on this, butcan i just one thing.

the issue of fixed versusvariable is not in front of us today.so that's one. so this is really beyond -->> we have some budget billing that gives people -- that givesa predictable bill once a month. >> but there's no question thatwhen anyone -- someone is at a forward price going forward asopposed to a variable price, there's a risk premium.so we would expect that that would get added because there isan effort to remove the risk of variable volatility in theprices away from the consumer on

to the vendor.that i think -- i think we all understand is sort of the basicunderstand is sort of the basic sort of thing in the market.the question though becomes in all these instances how high apremium, what is the ultimate rate and how do we make adetermination that even on a fixed price that the fixed ratebeing offered is a just and reasonable one.hence, the decision or recommendation or thought lastspring to look at reference pricing.so we have some gauge and

it's -- that's used in themarket. almost like a circuit breaker.so escos would know that within a certain range we would feelcomfortable that what they were offering was just andreasonable. and staff is working with them.i'm going to turn -- let me just finish.but i do want to take -- i do take issue with you.i do not think that we are regulating by headline.we began last spring to begin to work with the escos.we gave them every opportunity

to come in and work with us.they made a determination that they're going to sue us, evenchallenging our very authority to regulate this market on thebenefit of consumers. we had been working with them,our door had been open. staff has been end -- spentendless hours in collaboratives trying to work these thingsthrough. we have an obligation to protectconsumers. consumers have an -- have theright to believe that whenever they're charged for anythingthat it is within our

jurisdiction that they'regetting value for the dollar and the price that they're gettingis just and reasonable. to suggest that this conditionis doing anything that looking at how to execute its obligationto consumers is offensive to the rest of us.we have -- we have -- so i know you have voted against thesematters in the past. i know that you have votedagainst the low income discount. but i will tell you i'mabsolutely committed and i think the other commissioners arecommitted to getting the market

right.it was a market failure, we're going to address this and we'regoing to address this and we're going to continue to pursuesolutions for the benefit of consumers.so with that, i just -- you can disagree with us, you coulddisagree with us, you could disagree with our policy.but do not suggest that this commission does anything thatexecutes its responsibility to the people of new york.>> i want to respond to this. i think it's very difficult totry to make sure that i do what

i need to do as a regulator andas one member of this body. i'm well aware that there may betimes that what i say may be uncomfortable and notnecessarily agreed to by the other commissioners.but i do have the right and i do have a perspective that it isimportant that we make sure that we have a robust record, that weare not coming here and just going along because it'sdifficult. that in fact, we drill down andwe make sure that what we're doing is asking the rightquestions.

and it's not about asking theright questions internally. at times, it may be importantthat the public sees the debate and the discussion.i welcome people to have disagreements with me.in fact, it makes me a better regulator.it makes me go back and drill down and makes sure that i haveall the information i need. and if i don't, then i cannotfeel comfortable voting on it without first addressing it.i have said from day one and you can go back through all of thedifferent orders what's

important is that we are the --that our words mean something and the actions to those wordsmean something. and if i'm not comfortable withthose, that this is being done in a way that is actuallyaddressing the issue, and may actually have unintendedconsequences then i have to raise those issues.you go back prefebruary 2016, and you will see that we havehad a number of issues where we have ourselves stayed our ownesco orders, stayed our own esco orders and have on record intranscripts an admission that

maybe we got it wrong and weneeded to do another deep dive. in fact, at the february 2016session, i did not vote against the order.i said i concurred but i was very concerned, very concerned,with the unintended consequences and shutting down an entireindustry and causing confusion to the customers who wererelying on those -- on those escos.and my concern is making sure we get it right.i have asked repeatedly, repeatedly, both publicly andinternally for information,

drilled down on the office ofthe consumer services statistics and complaints and making surethat we are focused -- very much so on actually pulling out ofthat data and not just taking it to our advantage and using it ina way that these are harmful or positives to the people that weare trying to focus on. in fact, in this very order, itcites to a footnote on an initial complaint and during aperiod of time and capturing that period of time, i thinkit's six months, where we say we have a thousand complaints --initial complaints for escos.

my question is this, and i haveasked this -- go back to the session, september of 2016.this is not new. we're not being blind sided bymy questions. in fact, i'm trying to actuallymake sure that we're doing what we say we're going to do whichis protecting the rate payers and making sure that we have arobust marketplace and we're working on what we need to do.we can't go forward if we are ourselves are not willing totake stock of our own issues and i take umbrage with the factthat a party may decide that we

were wrong and they decide thatthey're going to challenge that in court.and that somehow, we are seen as bad actors for doing that.people on all sides of the aisle go to court and sue one party oranother if they believe that -- that the actions taken by acommission was improper and in fact, they -- two times they gotstays. one in the recent order and oneone in the recent order and one in the low income order.i do not want to be on the wrong side of the law.i was very concerned and i said

it.and that's -- and to the fact that we were taking some -- someleaps legally and that we might get harmed because we did notfile the process -- follow the process.the process is very important to me.and making sure that we do what we need to do, so that peoplehave the right due process and the right notice and in fact, iwas right. the court stayed all actions andwhen you stay the action and when you give it -- it's notjust because you messed up on

process.it's also because they think there may be some merit to theunderlying substance. so for when when i look at thisall i know is we have -- we have tros that are telling us that onthe order, the reset order, on the low income order that we arestayed in that. and that under that and i canpull out the language. the judge o'connor was veryspecific in not doing anything in violation of that order.so somehow now we have taken that and we may be able to, butsomehow we have now taken that.

we have based the evidence thatwe submitted to the court on the staff testimony, with thestatistics. and we have taken that and weovernight, we issued a notice opening up a proceeding.that -- that proceeding that was opened before the administrativelaw judge that notice last friday i read about it in thepaper and so my issue is, what was the drive to do that withouttelling the commission as a body?and having us vote as a body on whether or not that notice wasproper and in fact what i would

have said is i welcome anadministrative law judge -- an independent administrative lawjudge do looking into the -- looking into the issues anddoing a fair evidentiary hearing, doing a fair analysisand making sure that that we understand where our challengesare and where our opportunities are and potentially someresolutions. i look at that notice.i don't see anything about >> thank you.i think we have a record to stand on here.this has gone on for an awfully

long time.and i can safely say that when i first voted to have thismoratorium, i felt very secure in the fact that we were doingthe right thing. we all know escos can be greatpartners and we want them to be. but we have had a problem in newyork and i don't know how many times we have adjusted ourbusiness practice law and, you know, we have tried to work withpeople. but we are responsible for themoney that is given to help low income people.and that responsibility is a

heavy one.and when that money is literally thrown out the window and is notdoing these people any good, we have a responsibility to come inand stop it. if people can't trust theirgovernment to work and do the right thing to protect allsides, i mean, no one has worked harder with our office ofconsumer services than me. i'm actually -- i'm known farand wide as a consumer commissioner, so i think that wehave worked together well. and the fact that maybe theorganization is working to say

we haven't done the right thing,that's a disagreement that we can continue to have.but we are not shutting the door on anyone.but we have to come to grips with what is wrong.and so to open this up and let the bad players go out and dothe same thing, we know that this happens throughout thewhole country. there are people who are outthere, who know where to go in order to bilk the low incomecustomers because they know they're disadvantaged and if wedon't take a responsibility to

help the disadvantaged and tohelp the disadvantaged and to help the people who thinkthey're doing a good thing by helping the disadvantaged we'renot doing our job, period. so i think that talking aboutthis particular item addresses the fact that we are still goingto go out there and protect the low income people until we getthis thing right. that's all i have to say.>> i also want to note that our staff has been extremelydiligent. we have now done a review of allof the escos.

we are on the complaints and tosuggest that we are not enforcing our laws is also justfactually incorrect. >> i'd like to ask how do we asthe poc convert a low income moratorium which has been stayedby a court order to a prohibition without runningafoul of the tol? how do we issue a notice withoutit coming to the commission first to say it's okay.we feel that we have not violated the court order.and how do we make sure that we don't have notices issuedwithout the full body of the

commission -- without the fullbody of the commission and you may be able to legally -- but isit the right thing to do? should it come back to thecommission? i'd like to see added to thatnotice that we look at the default pricing.i'd like to see added to that a true independent analysis of ourown enforcement efforts. i'd like to see an analysis ofthe community choice aggregation and what's happening there andhow it is able to be a footnote in the order, be waived for manyof the provisions in the reset

order and the prohibition on thelow income. >> just on the third item,you'rer is southerly -- i would invite all of the commissionersto ever tell us if there are additional issues they'd like tosee it in the proceeding and we'll take it into considerationin terms of the investigation. so we will do that.on the issue -- on the issue, on the legality of this ordertoday, and even though it's beyond the scope of this order,the commission -- the ability to -- for the secretary toinitiate proceedings i'd turn to

you for legal proceedings.>> there are two issues that -- >> i need you to speak up.>> okay. first, let me get first to theitem that's before us. okay?if that's all right. when the commission adopted onan emergency basis the moratorium at the same time italso approved issuing a sapa notice to consider whether tomake the emergency order permanent.in that sapa notice, it was also noticed to the public and theworld that the commission would

be considering whether or not itshould be made a permanent prohibition instead of just amoratorium. that sapa notice was publishedin the state register. and it reads virtually word forand it reads virtually word for word for what is in the orderbefore you today in my many years of working here that sapanotice is closer to this order than any sapa notice had everbeen in the history of the commission.okay? so i don't believe there's anyprocedural problems there at

all.the judge did not stay the commission from taking futureactions. the judge cannot stay thecommission from taking future actions.the commission is a lawful body as this that has the -- that hasthe authority to take actions. so none of the actions we'reproposing today are covered by any stay by anybody.as to the notice that went out in the proceedings, i believe itwas mentioned at the last session when we talked aboutthis stuff that the commission

was going to be doing furtherwork on the reset order to go forward and that notice is justthe outcome of that. but it was not necessary for thecommission to vote on whether that notice should go out ornot. there's ample authority foreither the commission to issue such a notice, the secretary,the chair, or a designated employee who was going to beconducting a hearing. there's -- so there's absolutelyno question under the public service law that was proper andlegal.

and it is totally consistentwith everything we have been saying in public from thebeginning that we are going to work to try to first of all takelow income customers out of the equation and then second, fixthe markets. >> i would ask commissionersayre and commissioner acampora since he opined do you have anyadditional thoughts or concerns you want to address?>> i agree, that it was not necessary to take that kind ofinitiating order directly to the commission but i'd like therecord to reflect that had it

been, which was one of theoptions i would have voted for it.>> commissioner acampora? >> i agree with whatcommissioner sayre just said. i have no problem.>> i just want to clarify. i two times raised issues atsession concerned about the notice and the sapa and thelegality of that and worried about it.and both times the court acted staying our orders.so i'm particularly sensitive to making sure we don't come evenclose to a violation of the

court order and here theparticular language that concerns me said -- ordered thatany entity or persons acting pursuant to the moratorium orderare hire by temporarily restrained from acting or onacting on the moratorium order in any way.>> refers back to the order that was previously adopted by thecommission. here we are adopting a neworder. that prior restraint does notapply to a new action in any way or manner.>> we have --

>> and the court does not havethe authority to preenjoin a body like this from doingsomething. >> i understand but -->> so there's -- there's no legal issue.there's nothing -- >> we had an obligation to lookat how we can tighten up our processes.and make sure that there is no issue -->> which we did. which is why the sapa notice isword for word what's in this order.>> as a commission i would have

appreciated as a member of thecommission, as the body, being able to decide that as a bodyand even if i was outvoted, i'm comfortable with that if we as abody agreed that it was legal or not legal.all i know is a notice was issued on behalf of thecommission, without my authority, without my evenknowing about it. and without having anyopportunity to ensure that as robust a record and as robust ina notice is issued giving direction to the administrativelaw judge because i would have

asked for other things to be inthat so that we would make sure that we have a fair evidentiaryprocess. and i would have also asked ifwe had checked with the court on the -- on her interpretation orthe court's interpretation of whether or not she would seethat that was going to be a violation -->> commissioner burman, i appreciate that, that's yourview. but there's two separate issueshere and i think you're conflat here and i think you'reconflating the two.

the issue in terms of theinitiation of the proceeding, i think that in my mind the courtcontemplated additional proceedings and in the tro theyactually said the issue was they wanted us to have additionalproceedings. that's why we're havingadditional proceedings on how to reset this market and the issueon terms of low income which is the matter in front of us today,you have the ability to vote for it or to vote against it.so i'm going to move to a vote. all those in favor of therecommendation stated in item

energy service companies to lowincome customers as describe, >> opposed?>> and i dissent for a variety of reasons.one, i was not given the opportunity today to fullyexplain my concerns and to ask for detailed information.two, i am concerned that we may have crossed the line in termsof -- of pushing the bounds of fair and opportunity for notonly the parties, but for the commission to weigh in on theproper notice. three, i am concerned that theorder language is not balanced,

and in fact, appears from thatin a very, very broad brush to cast the entire industry as badactors. and having not come to the tableto try to resolve these issues. and four, at the end of the day,i want to make sure that what we're doing is actually helpfulto the customers, low income, middle income and any income.i want to make sure that we're doing what we need to do to makesure we maintain a reliable and robust energy system.and that means that we have to be able to have frankconversations and be able to

look carefully and to not taketo -- and to not try to tell a commissioner that he or she notbe asking these questions in a public forum.>> first of all, i don't think anybody has told you can't askquestions that's relevant, but i will take your opposition -- ido note you have had many minutes to talk about why you'reconcerned. so i don't think --we're going to move to item 301 which is our last item fortoday. and that is the petition forrehearing of the clean energy

standard presented by mr.gresta. paul, please begin.don't look so puzzled. you have me nervous.>> no, the number is throwing me off.it's changed. >> it's item 301.case 302. >> the item for the commissionto consider petitions requesting that the commission rehear orreconsider a number of issues decided on august 1 in the cleanenergy standard order. the standard for rehearing isset forth in the commission's

regulations and this pro -- theyprovide this is only appropriate when there was an error of lawor fact or when new circumstances warrant adifferent determination. as a legal matter, the standardis difficult to meet and is not unusual for most hearings to bedekneed. the topics covered by most ofthe petitions before you today include whether certainpre-existing hydropower resources should be eligible tosatisfy the renewable energy mandates, whether certainexisting hydropower wind and

other renewable resource shouldbe eligible for financial support to make sure they'recontributing to the base line of new york's renewable resources.whether the current bio math testing requirements foreligibility are too onerous. whether biogas technology shouldbe eligible for more financial support than other renewabletechnologies to recognize unique benefits they provide.whether the commission meant to contribute towards the renewableenergy standards mandate. whether impossession under thezero emissions requirement,

whether that requirement exceedsthe procedural or substantive authority under state law andwhether the requirement is within the commission'sauthority under federal law. all of the arguments made inthose petitions are summarized in the session item and thattherefore the rehearing process is not an appropriate vehicle toconsider the matters in the -- and the petition should bedenied. but staff also recommends therebe continued consultation by staff with the parties in afollow on process to ensure --

to further consider eligibilityto promote the deployment and this responds to the request ofmany for further consideration sooner than the otherwisetriannual review which wouldn't happen for three years.there is one other petition for your consideration as part ofthis session item that is somewhat different than theothers. exalong requests rehearing andremoval of the order requirement in which conditioned the 12 yearduration of the program -- by september 1, 2018.the purpose of that condition as

it relates to exalong was togive excelon a purpose to purchase that facility and thenthey responded positivity to the incentive and entered into thebinding contract to purchase the fitzpatrick facility that isdirectly related to the requirement.now exalong argues that continuing the requirement as toexalong now that it's made the transfer happen causes aperverse incentive, that is an incentive that's opposite to theoverall intended policy because it discourages exalong frommaking multiyear investments in

the facilities until such timeas the 12 year term is assured. if you're exalong you're notgoing to want to spend money on the five year project for aplant if you're not sure that after two years you're stillgoing to be around. so it works as a reverseincentive from what we want. the want to plant to stay openfor the full 12 years. so therefore, as to the exalongpetition, staff recommends that it be granted and that uponrehearing the requirement issue be modified as to how it appliesto exalong.

this concludes my presentationand staff is here to answer your questions.>> thank you. very quickly on that, i'mcomfortable with the fact that exlon has transacted with energyplus and approved the transfer, we would want any uncertaintygoing forward so they can execute on retaining fitz aspart of the fleet. i'm comfortable with thatchange. i also approve that we'reaccelerating the discussions that we'd have as part of thetriannual review in terms of the

hydro, as well as existingrenewables in this state. the low cost of natural gas ishaving its impact, both beneficial and harmful dependingon what business you happen to be in.but as a result of that, we want to look, because clearly, if infact there is existing -- are existing renewable resourcesthat we're taking service from today that would be because ofthe prices in the market, we find that they -- they couldn'teven stay open for three years and we would lose them as aresource and the cost of

replacing it would be higher.those are the types of factors that i think the commissionneeds to consider because our objective after all is toimplement the clean energy standard at the lowest costpossible to consumers. this is very consistent withlooking at this issue. so i'm comfortable with thedirection we're taking in the rehearing.and i intend to vote for it. any further questions orcomments? mr. sayre?you're still smiling.

>> i'm still -- you know, ichanged my train reservations. luckily i got the new ones.i concur with the staff recommendation.i agree that nobody has shown with their -- with a limitedexception of the fitzpatrick ownership requirement.nobody demonstrated a mistake of fact or mistake of law or thecircumstance that warrants a rehearing.so we deny it. >> commissioner burman?>> so i understand that the granting of the petition forrehearing on the piece with

exalong in addressing thatclause, and you know, sort of the fact that it doesn't makesense to have that in there. i also am very focused on thefact that we have a nuclear fleet that we need to ensure isviable and working with our focus on making sure that wehave a robust energy system and a reliable one.i think that there was some -- there's some confusion in mymind on the denial of some of the petitions for rehearingwhere we seem to suggest that we're denying them, by then atthe same time saying --

directing staff to look at howsome of these things may be able to be resolved in the future.and to me, it seems a little disconnect that if we areacknowledging that some of what they have in there is importantin terms of their interests in being a part of the clean energystandard or not, that it may be appropriate to grant rehearingon those aspects separated out and actually have a pathway ofrealtime of addressing them. it concerns me that again itgoes back to language and clarity and regulatory certaintyand to the extent that we have

the discretion to reconsiderportions of it, and to clarify or to incorporate some of thosethat we're not taking that opportunity to do so.i also think that last session when we looked at the publicservice law section 70 transfer that there was confusion that wewere deciding the clean energy standard.i made it very clear at the session that at time the cleanenergy standard was not a part of that decision on the publicservice law section 70 transfer. had nothing to do with anypotential state subsidies or any

subsidies and in fact was astraight section 70 transfer petition before us looking atthe four corners of that. that was really all that we weredoing. and so for me, my difficulty ison looking at this and understanding that we have asituation with needing to address a nuclear fleet beingsupportive of that, but also at the same time at the august 1, with the majority opinion on thedraft order. what said at that time which istill hold today is that we have

at -- we're at a criticaljuncture, we need to do look at all we're doing from the energyprocess and we need to move forward in making sure that allof our decisions and the impact that they might have short andlong term and the real costs and the overload and impact on thereliability and resiliency of the system needs to get lookedat in our long term state energy planning.and also incorporating what the experts outside of our agencymay also be doing with that overall state policy planning.so that's sort of my dilemma

when i look at this.>> from my point of view, none of the -- of them met thestandard for rehearing, none of them -- so we're making thedecision again today i would recommend you make the samedecision you made august 1st. the question they have raisedthat concerns us someone of timing.the decision doesn't have a review for another three thingsand i think they made a case that we need to look at thissooner. that's why we've suggested a newprocess.

>> but i think that i would addto that is that part of this is that the -- there are statementsthat have been made by the various renewable developers orrenewable owners that they are not able to economically survivein these markets and i think by opening -- starting thediscussion now we're able to look at this situation, get abetter understanding and develop the type of record evidence thatthe commission would want to see if it's going to reverse itsdecision on tier two. so this is -- it's not arehearing because we have -- we

have yet to have enoughinformation. this is the point of developingthe information earlier rather than -- and frankly, providingthe opportunity for certainty and addressing their concerns.so i don't -- i am very comfortable with it but i wouldnot be comfortable doing a rehearing right now because wesimply just don't have enough information.>> so can we did last time for the petition for clarificationwhich is essentially saying we hear you, we may need to retoolthis and therefore we will look

at that -->> the commission already said it was going to on a basisrelook at everything. and what we're hearing is theremay be some urgency to do it quicker.but we do not have facts before us even to come back with aproposal at this point. so it needs further -->> development. that's the purpose of theconsultation. >> okay.any questions? all right.so let's -- so for that, let me

move to a vote on item 301.all those in favor please indicate by aing save.>> aye. >> i still have the same concerni had at the august 1st session and i raised the concern that ialso believe that some of these aspects should be as we saidfast tracked to look at because people do need regulatorycertainty and making sure that they actually have a window tolook at that and have folks deciding how we should furtherproceed. but i also am very interested inmaking sure that all of this

gets looked at wholisticallyacross the board in terms of our diverse fuel and making surethat we do things that are technologically neutral and lookat how this impacts the grid itself.>> did you -- >> yes.>> i'll abstain from voting based on my previous vote.>> that's a no. >> no, it's not -- it's anabstention. >> an abstention is a no.so we're -- any other matters in front of us today?>> no other matters before you

today.>> before i close, first of all, any -- i'd like to -- smilingjack here. i do want to take a coupleminutes. so first of all, it is our lastsession of the year. we're ready to enter into theholidays and i think it's important to take a minute.first because for a couple of reasons.one, we are i think really fortunate in this state to havea staff at the department of public service that i think isexemplary par none in terms of

their dedication to the peopleand i know they want to get back to their homes, but i'm going totake a few minutes and to the people in new york, to theirjobs, to the sacrifices they make all the time in terms ofpublic service. i think i'm very fortunate to beserving with other commissioners who are equally dedicated.we have robust debates as obviously as you have seen, buti agree with commissioner burman that debates only make us betterand i think we're fortunate in that the parties who participatein our proceedings add so much.

as a result as a state, weaccomplish a huge amount and so, you know, you know, i took alook and -- to see you know what really is really a goodopportunity to say at the end of the air -- we have done a lot.the air -- we have done a lot. we have started the year franklywith the initiation of the cs proceeding which of course hasgotten -- taken a huge amount of time and been recognized as veryforward looking across the united states and frankly acrossthe country in what we're doing. but also, we started the matterwith the -- with the year back

then thinking of the -- matterwhich itself is complicated and now seems minor by comparison.throughout the year, just to get the facts on these, pure facts,we did eight major rate cases and saved rate payersapproximately $241 million from the activities of this staff andthese rate payers. we of course initiated in rev anumber of proceedings, the clean energy standard, the fundimplementation, the work on value of the distributed energyresources. the work on interconnections.the work on interconnections.

the work on bca.all approximately 13 orders. we had 24 public informationmeetings. and we received 4,000 commentsjust related to rev. we also were very successful inimplementation of the number of the demos throughout the state.and many customers of our utilities, coned, central hudsonand rg & e can look at ways of buying energy efficiency andbecoming engaged. something they never had before.con edison has the virtual power plant and it's looking atstorage and solar in combination

so you can add them together andas a result has worked with successfully with the firedepartment in new york and in addressing how to use lithiumion batteries which is a huge value as we integrate solar andother renewable resources. national grid implemented thefruit belt project which is a great project that's looking athow to work with low income consumers.and giving them access to solar. so all of these were just inrev. but we haven't stopped.we did a number of article 7

proceedings related to buildinginfrastructure. this staff is absolutelycommitted to getting things done to do things for reliability andthese things are often not seen by the commission, but ithappens every day. we completed four managementaudits and we began three. more than we have ever done inany single year since we started this in 1988.in tell acommunications we implemented the charter merger.and thanks to government cuomo we'll provide 300ing me abits ofbroadband and it's close to

the merger alone.our consumer services unit had basically one or two meetingsevery week. that they did.they fielded 60,000 complaints, had over 51,000 calls.that's in addition to the other processes we have debated atlength today and i'm not going to reopen that.pipeline safety handled a total of 659 cases.involving damages to underground facilities and our gas utilitiesagreed to complete more than we have engineers we're veryprecise of leaked pipe because

of commission approve orreplacement plans. that's nearly 20% more than theprevious year and lives up to the commitment to make sure thatduring our lifetimes we'll replace this pipe.that's last year. and the hits continue to keep oncoming and in 2017, there's lot of things we'll continue.we expect to see a number of article 10 proceedings relatedto wind development and other activities related to the cef.we'll have our first options. we expect to see a 90 megawattsolar project in front of us,

the biggest in the state.we'll implement and work on the value of distributed energyresource proceeding. i expect to get that as well ascompletion of our work on modifying how we dointerconnection. so you know, all in all, andthen in telecommunications we're going to continue to work on thestudy, especially looking at safety issues and how do weclose that digital divide. and continued work as always ongas safety and on the rev demonstrations.so, you know, we have a big

agenda behind us that wecompleted. i am always amazed at the workof the staff. they grumble like crazy, theycomplain like crazy but they get it done and they get it donewell. as you all know, i spent a greatdeal of time of my life in the frozen tundra of minnesota.and in minnesota, there's a little town called lakewoebegone that garrison keillor talks about and i'll borrow fromthat when i talk about the department.the fact of the matter is that i

am really fortunate that -- tobe part of the state where there's so many committedpeople, but really feel blessed that we're part of a departmentwhere the women are strong, the men are good looking, and all ofthe employees are well above average.so thank you. i wish you all a very happyholiday. and that is the close.null